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Thread: Jay Bruce looks like he has become a professional hitter overnight!!!!!!!

  1. #181
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    Re: Jay Bruce looks like he has become a professional hitter overnight!!!!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Vottomatic View Post
    "Clutch" may be more mental than anything.

    I've noticed a huge difference in Jay this season. He had a horrible first month but didn't get down on himself. His mental maturity is the most noticeable.
    Jay had horrible months every year of his career followed up by massive hot streaks every year of his career. This pretty much follows the same thing he has done every year.

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  3. #182
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    Re: Jay Bruce looks like he has become a professional hitter overnight!!!!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Raisor View Post
    To measure clutch you have to define clutch, otherwise meaningful discussion is impossible
    For me, RISP should be the main metric. Close and late is often too small of a sample size to take anything meaningful from it.

  4. #183
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    Re: Jay Bruce looks like he has become a professional hitter overnight!!!!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by scott91575 View Post
    For me, RISP should be the main metric. Close and late is often too small of a sample size to take anything meaningful from it.
    Too many things that are out of a player's hand with RISP, IMO.
    "But I do know Joey's sister indirectly (or foster sister) and I have heard stories of Joey being into shopping, designer wear, fancy coffees, and pedicures."

  5. #184
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    Re: Jay Bruce looks like he has become a professional hitter overnight!!!!!!!

    Wow, you try to compliment a Reds player on this site and your opinions get picked apart. Oh well, I can live with that.
    "I talked to an advance scout that told me if Joey Votto and Albert Pujols were on the same team he'd advise his team to do the unthinkable...pitch around Votto to get to Pujols." - Buster Olney, ESPN

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  7. #185
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    Re: Jay Bruce looks like he has become a professional hitter overnight!!!!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by New York Red View Post
    Wow, you try to compliment a Reds player on this site and your opinions get picked apart. Oh well, I can live with that.
    Watch what happens when you compliment the manager lol
    Quote Originally Posted by PuffyPig View Post
    Let's face it, you mis-hit the bun with the mustard squirter, no one will really care.

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  9. #186
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    Re: Jay Bruce looks like he has become a professional hitter overnight!!!!!!!

    Watch what happens when you compliment the manager lol
    Or question the manager...

    But back to Bruce. Most improved hitter on the team.
    "Baseball is a very, very complex business. It's more of a people business than most businesses." - Bob Castellini

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  11. #187
    nothing more than a fan Always Red's Avatar
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    Re: Jay Bruce looks like he has become a professional hitter overnight!!!!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by RedEye View Post
    Guys smarter than most all of us are on record lately about this. They say clutch mostly doesn't exist -- at least when looking at yearly or even year-to-year samples. Where it does exist -- maybe -- is in the analysis of large samples of performance over long spans of time. Rest assured the data available on Jay and BP is too limited to analyze in this manner. Absent that, we are better served to say that clutch is -- basically -- a myth.
    I understand what you are saying and I agree- for instance, Tony Perez and Dave Concepcion had reps as great "clutch hitters" when their career numbers showed they were the same hitters in the "clutch" as they always are.

    But for short stretches, of course, guys can be great or terrible "clutch hitters" which in my own small mind I define as RISP.

    BP is killing it this year, so far, with RISP, no question, it can't be denied. I think if you get a crystal ball out, it would be safe to say this is not going to continue. And we hope for the same equalization from the entire St. Louis Cardinals roster.

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  13. #188
    RaisorZone Raisor's Avatar
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    Re: Jay Bruce looks like he has become a professional hitter overnight!!!!!!!

    Ops w/RISP

    BP 1034
    Choo 1009
    Votto 996
    Frazier 813
    Bruce 714
    "But I do know Joey's sister indirectly (or foster sister) and I have heard stories of Joey being into shopping, designer wear, fancy coffees, and pedicures."

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    Re: Jay Bruce looks like he has become a professional hitter overnight!!!!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by New York Red View Post
    Wow, you try to compliment a Reds player on this site and your opinions get picked apart. Oh well, I can live with that.
    Your opinions didn't get picked apart becuase you complimented a player.

    Your opinions got picked apart because posters disagreed with it.

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  16. #190
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    Re: Jay Bruce looks like he has become a professional hitter overnight!!!!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Brutus View Post
    Why can't I? I'd prefer you answer the question. Does a run in the 9th inning county on the scoreboard differently than a run in the fourth inning?
    I don't think that this is an appropriate and accurate framing of the situation. It certainly doesn't come across like a discussion point, but more of a "look how silly you sound!" point.

    If the runs count the same, then why do statistics like pLI, phLI, and WPA/LI exist? In fact, FanGraphs produced an article that I have cited on this forum before about how relief pitchers are better evaluated through leverage than they are through FIP or ERA because of how important runs at the end of the game are. Furthermore, in any close game, the highest leverage points in the game show themselves at or towards the end. Do the Reds win last night if Bruce's home run was hit in the second inning instead of the ninth? Maybe. But there isn't any way to evaluate that situation other than through a holistic, grand-scheme results approach that really undermines the professionalism of the players on the field and ignores the idea that the players do, in fact, control their own results at least to some extent.

    So in a holistic approach, I guess the runs do count the same. However, I don't think baseball is a holistic game where results just "happen" in a vacuum.
    Quote Originally Posted by westofyou View Post
    Thus his team was punished

    Long live punishment
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  18. #191
    nothing more than a fan Always Red's Avatar
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    Re: Jay Bruce looks like he has become a professional hitter overnight!!!!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Plus Plus View Post
    So in a holistic approach, I guess the runs do count the same. However, I don't think baseball is a holistic game where results just "happen" in a vacuum.
    I agree, Plus Plus, did Jay himself feel more pressure to succeed in the 2nd inning or in the 9th inning?

    I think there is a difference, and it's very hard to quantify. Of course all runs count the same, but when you tally one when you absolutely must do it, or the game is over and you lose, that seems more special to me.

  19. #192
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    Re: Jay Bruce looks like he has become a professional hitter overnight!!!!!!!

    Having the reputation of being clutch is mostly a perception issue. Tony Perez had the rep, but with those great teams of the '70's, he had more of an opportunity to be put in big moments that would get burned into people's mind.

    But if a hitter comes through in a clutch spot, is he clutch or is the pitcher just not clutch?
    ...the 2-2 to Woodsen and here it comes...and it is swung on and missed! And Tom Browning has pitched a perfect game! Twenty-seven outs in a row, and he is being mobbed by his teammates, just to the thirdbase side of the mound.

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  21. #193
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    Re: Jay Bruce looks like he has become a professional hitter overnight!!!!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by PuffyPig View Post
    Your opinions didn't get picked apart becuase you complimented a player.

    Your opinions got picked apart because posters disagreed with it.
    There are just certain players you don't dare compliment on this site -- BP and Jay Bruce being the top two.
    "I talked to an advance scout that told me if Joey Votto and Albert Pujols were on the same team he'd advise his team to do the unthinkable...pitch around Votto to get to Pujols." - Buster Olney, ESPN

  22. #194
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    Re: Jay Bruce looks like he has become a professional hitter overnight!!!!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Always Red View Post
    I understand what you are saying and I agree- for instance, Tony Perez and Dave Concepcion had reps as great "clutch hitters" when their career numbers showed they were the same hitters in the "clutch" as they always are.

    But for short stretches, of course, guys can be great or terrible "clutch hitters" which in my own small mind I define as RISP.

    BP is killing it this year, so far, with RISP, no question, it can't be denied. I think if you get a crystal ball out, it would be safe to say this is not going to continue. And we hope for the same equalization from the entire St. Louis Cardinals roster.
    As long as we agree that BP's performance w/ RISP was more a result of random chance than some clear enduring skill, I don't have a problem with what you wrote here. "Clutch" in that sense is about as controllable by humans as a rainstorm. Maybe less, actually.
    "Iíll kind of have a foot on the back of my own butt. Thatís just how I do things.Ē -- Bryan Price, 10/22/2013

  23. #195
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    Re: Jay Bruce looks like he has become a professional hitter overnight!!!!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by New York Red View Post
    There are just certain players you don't dare compliment on this site -- BP and Jay Bruce being the top two.
    That's hyperbole.

    The fact is people don't like it when one uses hyperbole to compliment a player, or the opposite

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