Jay had horrible months every year of his career followed up by massive hot streaks every year of his career. This pretty much follows the same thing he has done every year.Originally Posted by Vottomatic
Jay had horrible months every year of his career followed up by massive hot streaks every year of his career. This pretty much follows the same thing he has done every year.
For me, RISP should be the main metric. Close and late is often too small of a sample size to take anything meaningful from it.
Too many things that are out of a player's hand with RISP, IMO.
Wow, you try to compliment a Reds player on this site and your opinions get picked apart. Oh well, I can live with that.
Vottomatic (06-20-2013)
Watch what happens when you compliment the manager lol
Or question the manager...Watch what happens when you compliment the manager lol
But back to Bruce. Most improved hitter on the team.
Vottomatic (06-20-2013)
I understand what you are saying and I agree- for instance, Tony Perez and Dave Concepcion had reps as great "clutch hitters" when their career numbers showed they were the same hitters in the "clutch" as they always are.
But for short stretches, of course, guys can be great or terrible "clutch hitters" which in my own small mind I define as RISP.
BP is killing it this year, so far, with RISP, no question, it can't be denied. I think if you get a crystal ball out, it would be safe to say this is not going to continue. And we hope for the same equalization from the entire St. Louis Cardinals roster.
HeatherC1212 (06-20-2013)
Ops w/RISP
BP 1034
Choo 1009
Votto 996
Frazier 813
Bruce 714
Your opinions didn't get picked apart becuase you complimented a player.
Your opinions got picked apart because posters disagreed with it.
Always Red (06-20-2013),Raisor (06-20-2013),TRF (06-20-2013),westofyou (06-20-2013)
I don't think that this is an appropriate and accurate framing of the situation. It certainly doesn't come across like a discussion point, but more of a "look how silly you sound!" point.
If the runs count the same, then why do statistics like pLI, phLI, and WPA/LI exist? In fact, FanGraphs produced an article that I have cited on this forum before about how relief pitchers are better evaluated through leverage than they are through FIP or ERA because of how important runs at the end of the game are. Furthermore, in any close game, the highest leverage points in the game show themselves at or towards the end. Do the Reds win last night if Bruce's home run was hit in the second inning instead of the ninth? Maybe. But there isn't any way to evaluate that situation other than through a holistic, grand-scheme results approach that really undermines the professionalism of the players on the field and ignores the idea that the players do, in fact, control their own results at least to some extent.
So in a holistic approach, I guess the runs do count the same. However, I don't think baseball is a holistic game where results just "happen" in a vacuum.
Always Red (06-20-2013),Cant Touch This (06-20-2013),Homer Bailey (06-24-2013),thatcoolguy_22 (06-20-2013),TSJ55 (06-20-2013)
I agree, Plus Plus, did Jay himself feel more pressure to succeed in the 2nd inning or in the 9th inning?
I think there is a difference, and it's very hard to quantify. Of course all runs count the same, but when you tally one when you absolutely must do it, or the game is over and you lose, that seems more special to me.
Having the reputation of being clutch is mostly a perception issue. Tony Perez had the rep, but with those great teams of the '70's, he had more of an opportunity to be put in big moments that would get burned into people's mind.
But if a hitter comes through in a clutch spot, is he clutch or is the pitcher just not clutch?
...the 2-2 to Woodsen and here it comes...and it is swung on and missed! And Tom Browning has pitched a perfect game! Twenty-seven outs in a row, and he is being mobbed by his teammates, just to the thirdbase side of the mound.
Always Red (06-20-2013)
There are just certain players you don't dare compliment on this site -- BP and Jay Bruce being the top two.
As long as we agree that BP's performance w/ RISP was more a result of random chance than some clear enduring skill, I don't have a problem with what you wrote here. "Clutch" in that sense is about as controllable by humans as a rainstorm. Maybe less, actually.I understand what you are saying and I agree- for instance, Tony Perez and Dave Concepcion had reps as great "clutch hitters" when their career numbers showed they were the same hitters in the "clutch" as they always are.
But for short stretches, of course, guys can be great or terrible "clutch hitters" which in my own small mind I define as RISP.
BP is killing it this year, so far, with RISP, no question, it can't be denied. I think if you get a crystal ball out, it would be safe to say this is not going to continue. And we hope for the same equalization from the entire St. Louis Cardinals roster.
“Every level he goes to, he is going to compete. They will know who he is at every level he goes to.” -- ED on EDLC
That's hyperbole.
The fact is people don't like it when one uses hyperbole to compliment a player, or the opposite
Brutus (06-20-2013),Homer Bailey (06-24-2013)
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