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Thread: VottOBP

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  1. #1
    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
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    VottOBP

    Much has been made of the ridiculous rate at which Joey Votto is walking. Through 15 games, he has twice as many unintentional walks as ANYBODY else in in baseball. It's literally Bonds-esque.

    Of course, baseball traditionalists are freaking out a bit, saying that Votto has taken his focus on his OBP too far, that he's not paid to score runs but rather to drive them in. I don't think I need to address that point directly. We all know where I stand. (That said, while I do think he's costing himself in terms of power production, I don't think his lower power output will continue to this degree).

    However, I wonder... could it be possible that Dusty will look at Votto's walks and decide that he actually would be better off batting 2nd? Is it even a remote possibility? Or will he and the rest of baseball traditionalists privately (or publicly) lament that he's not doing his real job?
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

  2. #2
    Start the Reactor! *BaseClogger*'s Avatar
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    Re: VottOBP

    If Joey Votto has morphed into a durable, met his potential Nick Johnson, is that a bad thing?
    "On-base percentage is great if you can score runs and do something with that on-base percentage," Baker said. "Clogging up the bases isn't that great to me."

  3. #3
    Potential Lunch Winner Dom Heffner's Avatar
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    Re: VottOBP

    If he keeps up the Sal Bando routine, nobody's going to be walking him.

    He swings like he's constipated.
    I'm interested in jobs and you won't create jobs by forcing employers to pay their employees $9/hr- Sea Ray
    I'd say min wage should be about $9/hr - Sea Ray

  4. #4
    Box of Frogs edabbs44's Avatar
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    Re: VottOBP

    Quote Originally Posted by Dom Heffner View Post
    If he keeps up the Sal Bando routine, nobody's going to be walking him.

    He swings like he's constipated.
    Agree. No matter what, it is stunning that Mesoraco has more RBI than Votto. And that Cozart has 3 more HR and 2 less RBI than Joey and Jay combined.

  5. #5
    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
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    Re: VottOBP

    Quote Originally Posted by Dom Heffner View Post
    If he keeps up the Sal Bando routine, nobody's going to be walking him.

    He swings like he's constipated.
    I have to say, I've thought the same. He's wound up so tight at the plate. Watching Phillips or Frazier and their read-and-react style of hitting is just so different.

    While I refuse to complain about a guy with a .500 OBP, I'd much prefer a .450/.525 line over .500/.400.

    Though I do have to remind myself that it's never as simple as trading outcomes. Many people simply couldn't accept that Adam Dunn couldn't trade walks for singles without effecting his power output -- it's just more complicated than that and I'm a believer that, by-and-large, by the time guys reach the big leagues and are in their late 20's, they've already found the approach that best fits their natural talents in a way that maximizes their production.
    Last edited by RedsManRick; 04-18-2013 at 09:54 PM.
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

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    Re: VottOBP

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsManRick View Post

    While I refuse to complain about a guy with a .500 OBP, I'd much prefer a .450/.525 line over .500/.400.
    You're not going out on much of a limb when you say you prefer a .975 OPS to a .900 OPS.

  8. #7
    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
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    Re: VottOBP

    Quote Originally Posted by PuffyPig View Post
    You're not going out on much of a limb when you say you prefer a .975 OPS to a .900 OPS.
    Well, when you figure OBP is worth nearly twice as much as SLG, it's not quite that clear cut.
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

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    Re: VottOBP

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsManRick View Post
    Well, when you figure OBP is worth nearly twice as much as SLG, it's not quite that clear cut.
    Even when you multiply OBA by 1.7 it's still quite a bit higher.

  10. #9
    Et tu, Brutus? Brutus's Avatar
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    Re: VottOBP

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsManRick View Post
    Well, when you figure OBP is worth nearly twice as much as SLG, it's not quite that clear cut.
    OBP correlates to run scoring more than slugging does. So you're still not making a very strong argument otherwise
    "No matter how good you are, you're going to lose one-third of your games. No matter how bad you are you're going to win one-third of your games. It's the other third that makes the difference." ~Tommy Lasorda

  11. #10
    Potential Lunch Winner Dom Heffner's Avatar
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    Re: VottOBP

    Never thought I'd see him be a rally killer over and over but good lord, he is lost up there.
    I'm interested in jobs and you won't create jobs by forcing employers to pay their employees $9/hr- Sea Ray
    I'd say min wage should be about $9/hr - Sea Ray

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    Re: VottOBP

    Quote Originally Posted by Dom Heffner View Post
    Never thought I'd see him be a rally killer over and over but good lord, he is lost up there.
    A guy with a OBA of .560 and a OPS of .930 is a rally killer?????

    The one thing that definitely doesn't kill a rally is getting on base, and Votto currently does that better than any player has ever done before.

    Considering that the value of OBA exceeds SL%, he's about an effective contributer to offence as there is in baseball. He's on pace for a WAR of about 9.
    Last edited by PuffyPig; 04-18-2013 at 11:02 PM.

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    Member Tom Servo's Avatar
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    Re: VottOBP

    He doesn't look right at all.
    "Since I've been with the Reds in 1989, we've never had a farm system this loaded," Bowden said. "If we were the New York Yankees and had unlimited dollars, we could have traded for Colon, (Jeff) Weaver, Rolen, (Cliff) Floyd, (Kenny) Rogers and Finley and gotten them all -- and still held onto our top five prospects. That's an amazing statement."

  15. #13
    Et tu, Brutus? Brutus's Avatar
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    Re: VottOBP

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Servo View Post
    He doesn't look right at all.
    That's another way of saying he looks human for once lol

    I know this: if the star player's worst is a .500 OBP and .900 OPS, and the team is hitting like crazy with him playing his worst, things are looking up.
    "No matter how good you are, you're going to lose one-third of your games. No matter how bad you are you're going to win one-third of your games. It's the other third that makes the difference." ~Tommy Lasorda

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    OlafTheBlack Dan's Avatar
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    Re: VottOBP

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Servo View Post
    He doesn't look right at all.
    I'm no expert, certainly, but it looks like he's dropping his hands too soon as he starts his swing. And he doesn't quite look balanced like he was last year. Remember last year when he wouldn't leave the batters box, just stood there and waited for the next pitch? He was perfectly still, perfectly balanced. I'm wondering if the knee has thrown that off as well.
    Sabermetrics is this: A batter's goal is to extend the inning. Extend enough innings and you're going to score runs. Extend more innings than your opponent and you're going to score more runs than him.

    Forget the rain. It's never an official game until the Reds piss away a run between third base and home plate. - Bluegrass Redleg

  18. #15
    Unsolicited Opinions traderumor's Avatar
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    Re: VottOBP

    Votto could have one good series and turn his numbers into what people expect. Sounding any alarms at this point is about like changing the annual budget because the first two weeks of the year had slower than expected sales.
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