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Thread: VottOBP

  1. #16
    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
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    Re: VottOBP

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    The key point is that Votto has NOT become impatient. I think the worst outcome would be Joey getting out on bad pitches.

    It's a long season, one way or the other Joey will produce.
    GREAT point. If you take as a given that he's getting barely anything worth hitting, then what we're seeing is pretty much the best case scenario. Flailing after those bad pitches and trading 10 walks for 1 double and 9 outs would not be worth it.

    That said, of 194 qualified hitters, Votto is 164th in the rate at which he swings at pitches in the strike zone. Particularly given his ability to hit with two strikes, it might not be a bad idea for him to be just a touch more aggressive early in the count.

    Of course, even as a I say that, I realize his entire approach to hitting is about focusing on a limted set of possible pitches and only swinging at what he's anticipated. Asking him to be more aggressive is to suggest he start reacting instead of anticipating, which could throw him completely out of whack. Though perhaps there's a way for him to just loosen up his rules a bit -- to find some middle ground between his current 0 strike approach and his completely reactive/defensive 2 strike approach.

    If nothing else, it makes for fun conversation.
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

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  4. #17
    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
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    Re: VottOBP

    Quote Originally Posted by Dom Heffner View Post
    Here comes a WAR lecture....

    And here's the response: the walks aren't going to be there, kids.
    The question is, when the walks aren't there, should we assume he'll keep slugging .370?
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

  5. #18
    RaisorZone Raisor's Avatar
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    Re: VottOBP

    I love what Votto is doing right now. The Reds are scoring a ton of runs. Something is going right. Biggest plus is that its making people crazy. I like that.
    "But I do know Joey's sister indirectly (or foster sister) and I have heard stories of Joey being into shopping, designer wear, fancy coffees, and pedicures."

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  7. #19
    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
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    Re: VottOBP

    Here are some interesting Votto stats:

    Code:
    			Career	2013
    1st Pitch in Play	12%	11%
    Gone 1-0		44%	56%
    Gone 0-1		44%	32%
    Gotten 2 strikes	49%	51%
    Gotten 3 balls		28%	41%
    Either Votto was previously chasing (and missing) a lot of first pitch balls in prior years that he's now taking OR he's seeing a lot more balls on the first pitch of the plate appearance than he used to. And once a pitcher falls behind Votto, the stakes are raised and he's probably more likely to nibble.
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

  8. #20
    2013 W.S. Champions Nathan's Avatar
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    Re: VottOBP

    Quote Originally Posted by Dom Heffner View Post
    A .370 slugging woth a .560 OBP...this is the weirdest start to a season I've seen....

    Someone needs to pull him aside and tell him the "I'm not going to make any outs" approach is not working.

    Give up 30 points of batting average and stop swinging like Bert Campaneris.
    So, let me get this straight. You'd rather him swing at bad pitches, which you say he's already doing, and lower his OBP in the sake of power? (That won't come from swinging at balls out of the strike zone)
    "It's better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak and remove all doubt."

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  9. #21
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    Re: VottOBP

    Quote Originally Posted by Dom Heffner View Post
    Never thought I'd see him be a rally killer over and over but good lord, he is lost up there.
    A guy with a OBA of .560 and a OPS of .930 is a rally killer?????

    The one thing that definitely doesn't kill a rally is getting on base, and Votto currently does that better than any player has ever done before.

    Considering that the value of OBA exceeds SL%, he's about an effective contributer to offence as there is in baseball. He's on pace for a WAR of about 9.
    Last edited by PuffyPig; 04-18-2013 at 11:02 PM.

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  11. #22
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    Re: VottOBP

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsManRick View Post

    While I refuse to complain about a guy with a .500 OBP, I'd much prefer a .450/.525 line over .500/.400.
    You're not going out on much of a limb when you say you prefer a .975 OPS to a .900 OPS.

  12. #23
    nothing more than a fan Always Red's Avatar
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    Re: VottOBP

    I wonder if Joey takes more pitches than he swings at during batting practice, too.

  13. #24
    Member harangatang's Avatar
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    Re: VottOBP

    What if Votto turns into Super Votto and starts hitting more while walking at the same rate or sustains a .500+ OBP? What's Votto's ceiling?

  14. #25
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    Re: VottOBP

    Quote Originally Posted by Dom Heffner View Post
    A
    Someone needs to pull him aside and tell him the "I'm not going to make any outs" approach is not working.

    .
    How is it not working?

    Votto is not making outs at a record pace.

    The Reds are scoring runs at a (for them) record pace, as they are on pace to score 932 runs, smashing their previous record of 865 by 67 runs.

    You score runs by not making outs. It's really that simple.

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  16. #26
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    Re: VottOBP

    Ughhhhh...ughhhh...ughh...let me get this right Votto is OBPing at the 13th highest rate in MLB history and we are debating about what is wrong with him at the plate. If this is the "not right" Votto, I can only begin to imagine what he will do when he is "right."

    Everyone does realize him and Bruce are going to catch stride in the month of May and just be deadly, right?
    "Today was the byproduct of us thinking we can come back from anything." - Joey Votto after blowing a 10-1 lead and holding on for the 12-11 win on 8/25/2010.

  17. #27
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    Re: VottOBP

    Last year, I had the very special opportunity of seeing the Reds play the Pirates in the Diamond Seats. I was in the restaurant when the Star Spangled Banner began, and as I stood up from my chair I noticed through the glass pane that someone was still taking batting practice...Upon a closer look, it was Votto taking (i mean hitting) pitches from the machine while the rest of the team (and everyone in the stadium) was getting ready for the first pitch because it was only seconds away. It was a wonder to watch.

    Skipping the National Anthem can only mean that Votto wastes no time and is an absolute workhorse. Either that or Canadians just don't care about our song
    There are only two seasons - Winter and Baseball.

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  19. #28
    Pitching is the thing WVRedsFan's Avatar
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    Re: VottOBP

    Looks like to me, he's getting really little to hit. Teams have decided to not let Joey Votto beat them, and everyone else in the lineup is doing the job. That will change. Soon enough, they will decide they have to pitch to him or else look foolish. I have no doubt we will see Votto break out, but OPS-ing near 1.000 is not a bad thing. Not at all. I laughed tonight when the rookie pitcher was blowing the first two away how he promptly walked Joey on 4 straight pitches out of the zone and we scored 11 runs. Worked, didn't it? Better days ahead for Joey.
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  20. #29
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    Re: VottOBP

    The whole dynamic with Votto is really fascinating. IMO, Choo has completely transformed this offense.

    Last year, first inning, Joey repeatedly came up with nobody on base. They pitched to him. Two outs, nobody on. What can happen? A solo shot? Big deal. A double with nobody on? Big deal.

    Now we have Choo getting on base constantly. Cozart seems improved and in any event is thriving hitting between the two great lefty hitters.

    Teams facing Votto have to make the choice. Particularly with a RHP they are choosing to pitch to Phillips and they are paying through the nose.

    I've always thought that hitting was very much a team game. The more good bats in a row, the better. If they are a combo of righties and lefties, even better.

    Not sure it will hold up all season, but I really do think the Reds offense can be top notch, whether Votto is hitting or just walking.

    Now, the pitching, that's a different thread I guess.

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  22. #30
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    Re: VottOBP

    Votto is on pace for 243 walks this season. Suppose he 4 AB's a game he would end up with a .375 on base percentage to end the season (not including his hits).

    A .375 OBP is around what an avg to slightly above avg player would get and Votto could do that with only his walks
    Last edited by panzecaz03; 04-19-2013 at 12:52 AM.


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