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Thread: Anyone else becoming concerned with Votto

  1. #16
    Member ervinsm84's Avatar
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    Re: Anyone else becoming concerned with Votto

    Quote Originally Posted by Dom Heffner View Post
    This whole "not getting stuff to hit" is hogwash.

    Ryan Braun has Rickie Weeks hitting behind him...

    Come on. Enough with the excuses.

    He's off, probably a small sample size thing, but this isn't a oh, Joey Votto is the only hitter in the game to get pitched around...that swing is atrocious right now.
    I'm pretty sure if his swing was atrocious other teams would be going right after him to challenge him repeatedly like they do when a pitcher comes to the plate. How come this guy with such an atrocious swing has ~ 2x the number of walks of the guy in 2nd in walks? Does he just have the magic elixir that makes teams throw that many more balls to him? Do we really think MLB teams would not have noticed this change to an atrocious swing and adjusted their pitching approach to him?
    Newsflash!

    Joey Votto does not care about RBI.

    NEITHER SHOULD ANY OF US

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  4. #17
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    Re: Anyone else becoming concerned with Votto

    Quote Originally Posted by Raisor View Post
    He's had some bad swings, but they appear to me to be defensive swings. Trying to keep an at bat alive.

    He'll be fine.

    I wish the other Reds would keep a +900 OPS when they were "slumping"
    The problem is that his +900 OPS will drop like a rock as pitchers realize he won't hurt them and start challenging him in the strike zone.

    Everybody keeps talking about all the walks he is accumulating. Those walks will end as soon as teams start to suspect that Votto cannot hit the ball with power or authority. Why shouldn't pitchers challenge him? Right now, the worst that could happen is that he might get a bloop single every now and then.

    The thing that gets me is that this is a polar opposite Joey Votto than the one we saw during spring training. That guy in Goodyear was driving the ball for power, running and sliding all over the place, hitting HR's every other day, looking like he was having fun, and generally looking like an All-Star. He did all that on his bum knee. What happened to THAT guy? That definitely screams that Votto's problems are in his head - not in his knee.

    But mental slumps like these can last a month, an entire season, and in some cases, entire careers. Most players, we'd write off as "in a slump." But Votto is the quarter of a billion dollar player, whom everyone who claims to be knowledgeable in baseball, has chosen to build the team around. Add to that the proverbial "window to win is now" thinking that has taken hold in this city, I think it fair for fans to wonder question Votto's role on the team.
    Opinions are like belly buttons. Everybody has one, and they don't want someone else's shoved into their face.

  5. #18
    Potential Lunch Winner Dom Heffner's Avatar
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    Re: Anyone else becoming concerned with Votto

    Quote Originally Posted by ervinsm84 View Post
    I'm pretty sure if his swing was atrocious other teams would be going right after him to challenge him repeatedly like they do when a pitcher comes to the plate. How come this guy with such an atrocious swing has ~ 2x the number of walks of the guy in 2nd in walks? Does he just have the magic elixir that makes teams throw that many more balls to him? Do we really think MLB teams would not have noticed this change to an atrocious swing and adjusted their pitching approach to him?
    His reputation, for one.

    Watching Joey Votto right now, there is no reason to pitch around him.

    He isn't scaring anyone.

    The walks will stop if this swing continues.

  6. #19
    Big Red Machine RedsBaron's Avatar
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    Re: Anyone else becoming concerned with Votto

    Quote Originally Posted by Roy Tucker View Post
    I've had those exact thoughts and was thinking about writing what you wrote.

    I also was afraid to express them because if it's true, we got a big problem.
    I had the same thoughts, including thinking of Steve Blass. The ESPN article was reassuring, but Joey's swings of late have been ugly.
    "Hey...Dad. Wanna Have A Catch?" Kevin Costner in "Field Of Dreams."

  7. #20
    Potential Lunch Winner Dom Heffner's Avatar
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    Re: Anyone else becoming concerned with Votto

    Quote Originally Posted by ervinsm84 View Post
    I'm pretty sure if his swing was atrocious other teams would be going right after him to challenge him repeatedly like they do when a pitcher comes to the plate. How come this guy with such an atrocious swing has ~ 2x the number of walks of the guy in 2nd in walks? Does he just have the magic elixir that makes teams throw that many more balls to him? Do we really think MLB teams would not have noticed this change to an atrocious swing and adjusted their pitching approach to him?
    And gosh, how does Carlos Gonzalez get anything to hit? How does Ryan Braun do it?

    This isn't about getting pitched around...Votto isn't even the most feared hitter in baseball...how on earth do good hitters ever do anything, apparently you just pitch around guys 100% of the time and voila, you shut them down!

  8. #21
    nothing more than a fan Always Red's Avatar
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    Re: Anyone else becoming concerned with Votto

    Thanks for posting that, Ervin, that was a great piece and gives me a little glimpse into the complex personality of Votto.

    I think it's clear, to me at least and especially after reading that article, that Joey is simply over thinking the problem right now. He hasn't forgotten how to hit, but maybe his muscle memory, which is very important in all sports, is either not all the way back after his injury last summer, or is being overridden by his brain at this point.

    I did find it interesting that Joey doesn't think runs matter anymore (he threw that in with RBI). Runs are the only goal of this game. And his approach actually leads to more runs, so maybe he just didn't express that properly.

    Joey Votto is a scientist. I work with many of them, live with some of them, and most approach problems just like he does. We're just not used to seeing it in sports.

    I have every confidence, like most everyone here, that this is temporary.

  9. #22
    Member ervinsm84's Avatar
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    Re: Anyone else becoming concerned with Votto

    Quote Originally Posted by Dom Heffner View Post
    And gosh, how does Carlos Gonzalez get anything to hit? How does Ryan Braun do it?

    This isn't about getting pitched around...Votto isn't even the most feared hitter in baseball...how on earth do good hitters ever do anything, apparently you just pitch around guys 100% of the time and voila, you shut them down!
    So you're saying he does have the magic walking elixir. Got it.
    Newsflash!

    Joey Votto does not care about RBI.

    NEITHER SHOULD ANY OF US

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    jimbo (04-20-2013)

  11. #23
    Potential Lunch Winner Dom Heffner's Avatar
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    Re: Anyone else becoming concerned with Votto

    He's one for his last twelve. He's slugging in the three's...he isn't getting pitched around, he's hitting around pitches.

    And like the others here, I wonder if his student of hitting combined with his mental state is a bad combo.

  12. #24
    Member Tom Servo's Avatar
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    Re: Anyone else becoming concerned with Votto

    I'll admit my worry is that it is some sort of Steve Blass/Rick Ankiel type thing going on with him at the plate.
    "Since I've been with the Reds in 1989, we've never had a farm system this loaded," Bowden said. "If we were the New York Yankees and had unlimited dollars, we could have traded for Colon, (Jeff) Weaver, Rolen, (Cliff) Floyd, (Kenny) Rogers and Finley and gotten them all -- and still held onto our top five prospects. That's an amazing statement."

  13. #25
    Potential Lunch Winner Dom Heffner's Avatar
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    Re: Anyone else becoming concerned with Votto

    Quote Originally Posted by ervinsm84 View Post
    So you're saying he does have the magic walking elixir. Got it.
    And you're saying his swing his fine, it's just in baseball one hitter can be reduced to a slap hitting Wayne Krenchiki by just pitching around him.

  14. #26
    Be the ball Roy Tucker's Avatar
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    Re: Anyone else becoming concerned with Votto

    What I'm hoping is that Votto's talent and work ethic gets him thorough this and all will be well.

    What the 800 lb. gorilla in the room is Votto's depression and anxiety issues from a few years back. I realize it may be a very insensitive thing to say, but it makes me think he may be more prone to getting his swing totally out of whack. And on a long-term if not permanent basis.

    And I want with all my heart and soul for that to be untrue and I'm speaking out my butt and everyone can point and laugh at me for being an idiot and unnecessarily worried an d jumping to conclusions. I'll gladly take all those slings and arrows for our usual superstar Joey Votto.

    Pay attention to the open sky

  15. #27
    Potential Lunch Winner Dom Heffner's Avatar
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    Re: Anyone else becoming concerned with Votto

    Quote Originally Posted by ervinsm84 View Post
    So you're saying he does have the magic walking elixir. Got it.
    He led the league in walks last year..didn't slug .360 then.

  16. #28
    Potential Lunch Winner Dom Heffner's Avatar
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    Re: Anyone else becoming concerned with Votto

    Quote Originally Posted by Roy Tucker View Post
    What I'm hoping is that Votto's talent and work ethic gets him thorough this and all will be well.

    What the 800 lb. gorilla in the room is Votto's depression and anxiety issues from a few years back. I realize it may be a very insensitive thing to say, but it makes me think he may be more prone to getting his swing totally out of whack. And on a long-term if not permanent basis.

    And I want with all my heart and soul for that to be untrue and I'm speaking out my butt and everyone can point and laugh at me for being an idiot and unnecessarily worried an d jumping to conclusions. I'll gladly take all those slings and arrows for our usual superstar Joey Votto.
    Exactly. Plus a million. This is what we are all thinking.

  17. #29
    Member ervinsm84's Avatar
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    Re: Anyone else becoming concerned with Votto

    Quote Originally Posted by Dom Heffner View Post
    He's one for his last twelve. He's slugging in the three's...he isn't getting pitched around, he's hitting around pitches.

    And like the others here, I wonder if his student of hitting combined with his mental state is a bad combo.
    Newsflash!

    Joey Votto does not care about RBI.

    NEITHER SHOULD ANY OF US

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  19. #30
    Potential Lunch Winner Dom Heffner's Avatar
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    Re: Anyone else becoming concerned with Votto

    Quote Originally Posted by ervinsm84 View Post
    (Slaps knee). Good to see you're one of the twenty Amerucans who invest 90 minutes of a Saturday night to get one laugh.

    Joey Votto looks terrible at the plate right now and has for pretty much since his injury.

    Maybe he's still hurt, maybe it's just a slump, but it warrants a discussion.


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