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Thread: Hanigan to the DL, Corky Miller purchased from AAA, Masset to 60 day

  1. #31
    Member NebraskaRed's Avatar
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    Re: Hanigan to the DL, Corky Miller purchased from AAA, Masset to 60 day

    Quote Originally Posted by WVRedsFan View Post
    The fascination this board and the fan base has with Corky Miller confuses me. the fascination with his mustache confuses me even more. I do not understand.
    If you don't understand Corky Miller, then don't even attempt to wrap your mind around Porky Miller.

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  3. #32
    Member Tom Servo's Avatar
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    Re: Hanigan to the DL, Corky Miller purchased from AAA, Masset to 60 day

    Quote Originally Posted by Benihana View Post
    The amount of money we have spent (and wasted) in the bullpen since the end of the 2011 season is astounding:

    Madson
    Masset
    Ondrusek
    Arredondo
    Marshall
    Broxton
    Chapman

    While the bullpen is and has been very strong, IMO we have way too much payroll tied up in the 'pen.

    File this is in the very small cabinet of things to complain about relative to all the great successes of this front office, so of course it's all relative.
    None were as bad as Mike Lincoln's deal though, who earned himself 4 million in 09/10 simply on the basis of an okay 08.
    "Since I've been with the Reds in 1989, we've never had a farm system this loaded," Bowden said. "If we were the New York Yankees and had unlimited dollars, we could have traded for Colon, (Jeff) Weaver, Rolen, (Cliff) Floyd, (Kenny) Rogers and Finley and gotten them all -- and still held onto our top five prospects. That's an amazing statement."

  4. #33
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    Re: Hanigan to the DL, Corky Miller purchased from AAA, Masset to 60 day

    Honestly, I was just looking at his OPS dropping 3 years in a row. But, you are right that is OBP has been steady.

  5. #34
    Box of Frogs edabbs44's Avatar
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    Re: Hanigan to the DL, Corky Miller purchased from AAA, Masset to 60 day

    Quote Originally Posted by Benihana View Post
    The amount of money we have spent (and wasted) in the bullpen since the end of the 2011 season is astounding:

    Madson
    Masset
    Ondrusek
    Arredondo
    Marshall
    Broxton
    Chapman

    While the bullpen is and has been very strong, IMO we have way too much payroll tied up in the 'pen.

    File this is in the very small cabinet of things to complain about relative to all the great successes of this front office, so of course it's all relative.
    Add it up...it's not a lot. Especially for a key strength. And take away Madson's injury and has much money actually "gone to waste"?

  6. #35
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    Re: Hanigan to the DL, Corky Miller purchased from AAA, Masset to 60 day

    I've always felt that many here just don't appreciate what Hannigan means to this team behind the plate. Thought his lack of injuries was one of the big reasons for our success last year. We'll see what the next month brings.

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  8. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Servo View Post
    Not with us.
    That's what everyone said about Bill Bray in 2009 and he was decent in 2010 and 2011. Wouldn't write Masset out quite yet.
    numbersinthereds.blogspot.com I actually made a post on 7/24/14. I promise.

  9. #37
    Be the ball Roy Tucker's Avatar
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    Re: Hanigan to the DL, Corky Miller purchased from AAA, Masset to 60 day

    I love Corky as a character and he's competent behind the plate. But the man cannot hit MLB pitching. Hopefully his starts will be few and Dusty rides Mes like a rented mule.

    Pay attention to the open sky

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  11. #38
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    Re: Hanigan to the DL, Corky Miller purchased from AAA, Masset to 60 day

    Quote Originally Posted by edabbs44 View Post
    Add it up...it's not a lot. Especially for a key strength. And take away Madson's injury and has much money actually "gone to waste"?
    Disagree.

    Marshall - 3 years, $16.5M
    Broxton - 4 years, $29M
    Chapman - (will make A LOT in arbitration as a closer, signed through 2016)
    Madson - 1 year, $8.5M
    Masset - 2 years, $5.5M
    Ondrusek - 2 years, $2.2M
    Arredondo - 1 year, $1.2M

    That is $63M PLUS whatever Chapman makes 2012-2016. That may not be a lot of money to you, but it's a lot of money to me (and I believe to the Reds). Of course the bullpen has been good, and I think is set up to be good for the future, but I believe it is not the best allocation of resources. Chapman is awesome and Marshall is good (so you could argue that both of those are money well spent), but I'd argue Marshall and especially Broxton will be significantly overpaid assuming neither one becomes the closer, and the other four are almost complete wastes (Madson, Masset, Ondrusek and Arredondo) - that is $17.5M of wasted resources (or at least overspent). Some of that was unavoidable (Madson) but the rest of it doesn't look very smart. Just saying.

    The Broxton signing in particular was always curious to me, especially if he isn't/wasn't going to be the closer.
    Go BLUE!!!

  12. #39
    The Big Dog mth123's Avatar
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    Re: Hanigan to the DL, Corky Miller purchased from AAA, Masset to 60 day

    Chapman will be arb eligible after this season and the remaining salary on his original deal will convert to a signing bonus. He'll cost a lot in 2014.
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

    Having better players makes "the right time" or "the big hit" happen a lot more often. PLUS PLUS

  13. #40
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    Re: Hanigan to the DL, Corky Miller purchased from AAA, Masset to 60 day

    Quote Originally Posted by _Sir_Charles_ View Post
    I had a conversation about this in a game thread a few days back. I've looked at it some more and I'm sorry, but I simply don't see this erosion of his offensive skills. At all.

    I'm not looking at his first few weeks this year because it's such a small sample that it can easily be thrown out as a simple slump hampered by the thumb injury.

    But seriously, where is this erosion of skills?

    Code:
                                                                   
    Year   Age   G  AB  R  H 2B 3B HR RBI BB SO   BA  OBP  SLG  OPS
    2008    27  31  85  9 23  2  0  2   9 10  9 .271 .367 .365 .732
    2009    28  90 251 22 66  6  1  3  11 37 31 .263 .361 .331 .692
    2010    29  70 203 25 61 11  0  5  40 33 21 .300 .405 .429 .834
    2011    30  91 266 27 71  6  0  6  31 35 32 .267 .356 .357 .714
    2012    31 112 317 25 87 14  0  2  24 44 37 .274 .365 .338 .703
    He had a career high in 2010 with the ba, ops. But outside of that he's been pretty much the same guy every year. High obp, decent ba, low slg, great plate discipline, high contact rate. His HR's went down to 2 last season, but his power didn't really decline as he had a career high in doubles.

    I'm far from a stat guy, so maybe somebody can show me where this decline is? Somebody (I think it was KC) was pointing towards his splits as showing his decline. If that's the case, wouldn't it also show up in his season totals?
    After a 2010 where it looked like his bat had improved, Hanigan last year hit for very little power with a .338 SLG and hit for a .661 OPS against righties, which appears (on quick review) to be the lowest such OPS of his career.

    Hanigan's had a very good career, he's far exceeded expectations and remains an excellent defender. Last year, though, Hanigan's OPS was down to .703 and in 371 PAs he had 16 extra base hits. That's an extra base hit in about 4% of his PAs. It's 2.6 extra base hits per month.

    I admire Hanigan very much and think he continues to have a role on the team, but if Mesoraco proves to be a notably better hitter it's hard for me to justify Hanny getting most of the playing time. Good hitting catchers are rare and when have one, he should play as often as possible.

  14. #41
    malingered here too long malcontent's Avatar
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    Re: Hanigan to the DL, Corky Miller purchased from AAA, Masset to 60 day

    Miguel Olivo would look pretty good in red right now.

    I wish he would have accepted the DFA.

  15. #42
    Member Tom Servo's Avatar
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    Re: Hanigan to the DL, Corky Miller purchased from AAA, Masset to 60 day

    Quote Originally Posted by malcontent View Post
    Miguel Olivo would look pretty good in red right now.

    I wish he would have accepted the DFA.
    Rod Barajas is available and he's just as lousy a hitter as Olivo with better D.
    "Since I've been with the Reds in 1989, we've never had a farm system this loaded," Bowden said. "If we were the New York Yankees and had unlimited dollars, we could have traded for Colon, (Jeff) Weaver, Rolen, (Cliff) Floyd, (Kenny) Rogers and Finley and gotten them all -- and still held onto our top five prospects. That's an amazing statement."

  16. #43
    Flash the leather! _Sir_Charles_'s Avatar
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    Re: Hanigan to the DL, Corky Miller purchased from AAA, Masset to 60 day

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    After a 2010 where it looked like his bat had improved, Hanigan last year hit for very little power with a .338 SLG and hit for a .661 OPS against righties, which appears (on quick review) to be the lowest such OPS of his career.

    Hanigan's had a very good career, he's far exceeded expectations and remains an excellent defender. Last year, though, Hanigan's OPS was down to .703 and in 371 PAs he had 16 extra base hits. That's an extra base hit in about 4% of his PAs. It's 2.6 extra base hits per month.

    I admire Hanigan very much and think he continues to have a role on the team, but if Mesoraco proves to be a notably better hitter it's hard for me to justify Hanny getting most of the playing time. Good hitting catchers are rare and when have one, he should play as often as possible.
    Yes, good hitting catchers are rare. But he should only play as often as possible if his defense is good enough. Because at the end of the day, a catchers #1 job is defense and handling the pitching staff. Hitting is secondary. Right now, Mesoraco is well below average defensively from what I've been watching. Hopefully some of that is him being unused to the pitchers he's catching. More reps will certainly help. I'm optimistic...but I'm not ready to hand over the reins quite yet. Not when this teams' forte is pitching and defense. We're scoring PLENTY of runs with Hanigan in the lineup. If the offense was a major problem...I might rethink that. But right now it's simply not the case.

    And btw, he had 16 extra base hits last year...that's true. But it also tied his career high. That's not trending down. If you're going to look at OPS for a hitter like Hanigan, you're missing out on what he actually DOES bring to the table. He works the count, he doesn't strike out, he'll get more than his fair share of walks, he's a great contact hitter...for an excellent defensive catcher that's more than good enough to be a starter. Power isn't the end all be all for hitters IMO.
    Last edited by _Sir_Charles_; 04-21-2013 at 05:32 PM.
    2014 predictions:
    99-63 WS champs (Cards take 2nd WC, Mil 3rd, Pit 4th, Chi 5th)
    Bruce/Votto neck and neck MVP race (neither takes it)
    Bailey CYA winner
    Hamilton ROY & GG

  17. #44
    Member Strikes Out Looking's Avatar
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    Re: Hanigan to the DL, Corky Miller purchased from AAA, Masset to 60 day

    You had me at Corky!
    Hacktastic: The Story of the 2014 Cincinnati Reds

  18. #45
    Box of Frogs edabbs44's Avatar
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    Re: Hanigan to the DL, Corky Miller purchased from AAA, Masset to 60 day

    Quote Originally Posted by Benihana View Post
    Disagree.

    Marshall - 3 years, $16.5M
    Broxton - 4 years, $29M
    Chapman - (will make A LOT in arbitration as a closer, signed through 2016)
    Madson - 1 year, $8.5M
    Masset - 2 years, $5.5M
    Ondrusek - 2 years, $2.2M
    Arredondo - 1 year, $1.2M

    That is $63M PLUS whatever Chapman makes 2012-2016. That may not be a lot of money to you, but it's a lot of money to me (and I believe to the Reds). Of course the bullpen has been good, and I think is set up to be good for the future, but I believe it is not the best allocation of resources. Chapman is awesome and Marshall is good (so you could argue that both of those are money well spent), but I'd argue Marshall and especially Broxton will be significantly overpaid assuming neither one becomes the closer, and the other four are almost complete wastes (Madson, Masset, Ondrusek and Arredondo) - that is $17.5M of wasted resources (or at least overspent). Some of that was unavoidable (Madson) but the rest of it doesn't look very smart. Just saying.

    The Broxton signing in particular was always curious to me, especially if he isn't/wasn't going to be the closer.
    Ondrusek and Arredondo are barely above minimum wage. Madson and Massett were wrecked by injuries. Check your Brox math. And using a cumulative number makes no sense when you don't give years.

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