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Thread: Starting pitching and Quality Starts

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    All work and no play..... Vottomatic's Avatar
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    Starting pitching and Quality Starts

    I thought it would be nice to give some props to our starting pitching and show their Quality Starts (6+ IP, 3 or less earned runs).

    I think we could have 4 - 15 game winners on this team, and possibly a couple of 20 game winners if our offense wasn't so sporadic, and late scoring, and our bullpen would live up to it's billing. Wins aren't THAT important of a stat, but still it would be nice to see our starters rewarded for good outings.

    All in all, we're winning and that's what matters.

    April 1 - Cueto goes 7 IP, 3 hits, 1 ER.....only to see us lose in 13.
    April 3 - Latos goes 6 2/3, 3 ER......only to see the bullpen give up the lead, and the Reds have to pull it out in the 9th, 5-4.
    April 4 - Arroyo goes 6 IP, gives up 3 ER and gets the win.
    April 5 - Bailey goes 6 IP, gives up 2 hits, 0 ER, in a 15-0 blowout of the Nats.
    April 6 - Leake goes 6 IP, 4 ER, is losing when he leaves the game. Reds rally late only to see Hoover give it up 7-6 loss.
    April 7 - Cueto outduels Strasburg, goes 6 IP, 3 ER, gets the win.
    April 8 - Latos goes 6 IP, 1 ER, as Cards bullpen implodes, Reds win 13-4, Latos doesn't get win due to Choo's 2 misplayed fly balls. 4-4 when he left the game.
    April 9 - Arroyo pitching a gem and then gives up 4 runs in the 6th inning. Reds lose 5-1, as Lance Lynn pitches a gem.
    April 10 - Bailey implodes in the 5th and 6th innings as well as our bullpen, as Reds lose to Jake Westbrook's gem, 10-0.
    April 12 - Leake drilled for 5 runs in the first 2 innings, as Reds lose 6-5 to the Pirates.
    April 13 - Cueto leaves with injury in the 5th inning after only giving up 1 ER. Simon gives up 2 more runs in relief, Reds lose to Pirates 3-1.
    April 14 - Latos cruises, giving up 3 ER in 6 2/3 IP, but Broxton gets drilled for 6 ER as Reds lose to Pirates 10-7.
    April 15 - Arroyo goes 8 IP, 2 ER, as Reds beat Phillies 4-2. Arroyo goes to 2-1.
    April 16 - Bailey - 8 IP, 2 hits, 0 ER, 10 K's, but Reds don't score until the 9th and win 1-0, and Chapman gets the win.
    April 17 - Leake - 7 IP, 3 hits, 0 ER as Reds win 11-2. Leake (1-0).
    April 18 - Cingrani - 5 IP, 5 hits, 1 ER as Reds win 11-1. Cingrani (1-0)
    April 19 - Latos - 7 IP, 6 hits, 1 ER, but Chapman gives up HR in 9th as Reds lose to Marlins 2-1.
    April 20 - Arroyo with a gem - 8 IP, 6 hits, 2 ER, but Reds don't win it until the 13th, 3-2.
    April 21 - Bailey - 6 IP, 7 hits, 2 ER, but offense doesn't explode until late as Reds win 10-6. No decision.
    April 22 - Leake - 7 IP, 8 hits, 2 ER, but offense mounts 2 comebacks and wins it in extra innings 5-4. No decision.

    Best way to look at it is quality starts:
    Cueto - 3 starts, 2 QS, probably would have had a third one if he doesn't get hurt as he'd only given up 1 ER in the middle of the 5th inning.
    Latos - 4 starts, 4 QS
    Arroyo - 4 starts, 3 QS
    Bailey - 4 starts, 3 QS
    Leake - 4 starts, 2 QS
    Cingrani - 1 start, 0 QS (only went 5 innings, my goof!)

    20 starts, 14 QS

    Impressive.
    Last edited by Vottomatic; 04-23-2013 at 11:20 AM. Reason: Edit: Corrected mistake on Cingrani
    "I can't take this homerism anymore." - 10xWSChamps, August 11, 2010. A Cardinals fan having a problem with all the homerism on Redszone. Classic.

    "Man do I miss the days where were didn't need a calculator and an encyclopedia of baseball metrics to enjoy a baseball game ... - MikeS21" - 8/2/12 game thread

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  3. #2
    .377 in 1905 CySeymour's Avatar
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    Re: Starting pitching and Quality Starts

    Great point and nice work showing your point! I think I saw the other day that the Reds lead MLB in starters innings so far.
    ...the 2-2 to Woodsen and here it comes...and it is swung on and missed! And Tom Browning has pitched a perfect game! Twenty-seven outs in a row, and he is being mobbed by his teammates, just to the thirdbase side of the mound.

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    It's showtime! RedEye's Avatar
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    Re: Starting pitching and Quality Starts

    Good stuff, Vottomatic, and encouraging numbers from the Reds pitching staff, to be sure. I much prefer QS to W as a measure of our rotation, but I've always been bothered by how arbitrary it is. Giving up 3 runs in 6 innings equals a 4.50 ERA, which I'm not sure I would deem "quality." I also dislike how the statistic is blind to other sorts of good starts. Why would 8 IP and 4 ER be any less "quality" than 6 and 3? Or what about 5 1/3 IP with 0 ER?

    Anyway, the stuff you are reporting is undoubtedly good news. But I'm curious about whether there is a better way to establish a counting stat for starters. One stat we use in my fantasy league to balance out the QS (which we do use) is innings per games started (INNdGS). This weights the guys who go deep into games consistently higher than those who barely cross the 6 IP threshold, and better distinguishes, say, a CC Sabathia or a Felix Hernandez from a Mike Leake.
    "Iíll kind of have a foot on the back of my own butt. Thatís just how I do things.Ē -- Bryan Price, 10/22/2013

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    Member Sea Ray's Avatar
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    Re: Starting pitching and Quality Starts

    What's your definition of a quality start? I've always heard it was 6 innings and 3 runs. Cingrani had a 5 inning start so I'm puzzled how he qualifies in your mind

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    RedEye (04-23-2013)

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    Re: Starting pitching and Quality Starts

    Quote Originally Posted by Sea Ray View Post
    What's your definition of a quality start? I've always heard it was 6 innings and 3 runs. Cingrani had a 5 inning start so I'm puzzled how he qualifies in your mind
    You are correct, Cincy only has 14 quality starts.

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    Member RadfordVA's Avatar
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    Re: Starting pitching and Quality Starts

    Some other nice team pitching stats for entire staff. Rank in NL;

    3rd youngest average age of pitchers

    3rd in ERA+

    2nd in WHIP

    2nd in BB/9

    1st in SO/9

    1st in SO/BB

  9. #7
    It's showtime! RedEye's Avatar
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    Re: Starting pitching and Quality Starts

    Quote Originally Posted by RadfordVA View Post
    Some other nice team pitching stats for entire staff. Rank in NL;

    3rd youngest average age of pitchers

    3rd in ERA+

    2nd in WHIP

    2nd in BB/9

    1st in SO/9

    1st in SO/BB
    If they can just re-sign Cueto, Latos and Bailey, this could be the start of a very long span of good team pitching performances.
    "Iíll kind of have a foot on the back of my own butt. Thatís just how I do things.Ē -- Bryan Price, 10/22/2013

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    Re: Starting pitching and Quality Starts

    quality starts are nice b/c gives you a chance to win.

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    cumberlandreds (04-23-2013)

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    Re: Starting pitching and Quality Starts

    Quote Originally Posted by RadfordVA View Post
    Some other nice team pitching stats for entire staff. Rank in NL;

    3rd youngest average age of pitchers

    3rd in ERA+

    2nd in WHIP

    2nd in BB/9

    1st in SO/9

    1st in SO/BB
    I would take this a step further and say they are doing this while having played 70% of their games in the GABP launching pad.

  13. #10
    Marty Moose!!
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    Re: Starting pitching and Quality Starts

    Still can't believe "good pitching" and "Cincinnati Reds" can be used in the same sentence. Loving it. For so long, the Reds have had a surplus of good hitting, but always short on the pitching. So nice to finally see a blend of good hitting and good pitching. IMO, when Cueto comes back, the starting pitching ranks up there with anyone in the game.

  14. #11
    All work and no play..... Vottomatic's Avatar
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    Re: Starting pitching and Quality Starts

    Frustrating to see good starting pitching effort after another go to waste here and there. All of our starters could have 2 to 4 wins by now. Wins aren't that important, I know. But I think pitchers care.

    This offense may be leading the league in runs scored, but they're still definitely hot and cold.

    Frustrating. Same with the bullpen and Dusty's management of it.
    "I can't take this homerism anymore." - 10xWSChamps, August 11, 2010. A Cardinals fan having a problem with all the homerism on Redszone. Classic.

    "Man do I miss the days where were didn't need a calculator and an encyclopedia of baseball metrics to enjoy a baseball game ... - MikeS21" - 8/2/12 game thread

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    Re: Starting pitching and Quality Starts

    The starting pitching has been great. Unfortunately, it seems our offense waits until our starter has left the game to score any runs.
    "I talked to an advance scout that told me if Joey Votto and Albert Pujols were on the same team he'd advise his team to do the unthinkable...pitch around Votto to get to Pujols." - Buster Olney, ESPN

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    It's showtime! RedEye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by New York Red View Post
    The starting pitching has been great. Unfortunately, it seems our offense waits until our starter has left the game to score any runs.
    A main reason Wins for pitchers should cease to exist.
    "Iíll kind of have a foot on the back of my own butt. Thatís just how I do things.Ē -- Bryan Price, 10/22/2013


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