Turn Off Ads?
Page 2 of 24 FirstFirst 12345612 ... LastLast
Results 16 to 30 of 350

Thread: Tony Cingrani Thread

  1. #16
    Titanic Struggles Caveat Emperor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    The 513
    Posts
    12,570

    Re: Tony Cingrani Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by paulrichjr View Post
    Arroyo to bullpen? Seriously? What does this guy have left to prove to Reds fans?
    Don't know -- Arroyo is criminally undervalued by Reds fans. Not only should he not be moved to the bullpen, I think the Reds should be seriously exploring the possibility of extending him another 2 years.
    Championships Matter.
    23 Years and Counting...

  2. Likes:

    benchpress (04-24-2013), Brisco (04-24-2013), fireman937 (04-24-2013), malcontent (04-24-2013), marcshoe (04-27-2013), mth123 (04-24-2013), Red in Chicago (04-24-2013), REDREAD (04-24-2013), Tom Servo (04-24-2013)

  3. Turn Off Ads?
  4. #17
    Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Posts
    703

    Re: Tony Cingrani Thread

    Keep him and move Parra. Cingrani would be one of the long men out of the pen with an occasional start. Get him acclimated to MLB and have him ready to start in 2014.

  5. Likes:

    remdog (04-24-2013)

  6. #18
    Viva la Rolen kaldaniels's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    7,541

    Re: Tony Cingrani Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Caveat Emperor View Post
    Don't know -- Arroyo is criminally undervalued by Reds fans. Not only should he not be moved to the bullpen, I think the Reds should be seriously exploring the possibility of extending him another 2 years.
    If the scouts/medical staff gave Walt the go ahead, that would be a pretty stealth move (in the sense that many expect Arroyo to walk/not be attemped to re-sign) that could pay off. Arroyo has seemed flexible with deferring money I believe...so that could come into play too.

  7. #19
    Member cumberlandreds's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Sterling VA
    Posts
    8,775

    Re: Tony Cingrani Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Caveat Emperor View Post
    Don't know -- Arroyo is criminally undervalued by Reds fans. Not only should he not be moved to the bullpen, I think the Reds should be seriously exploring the possibility of extending him another 2 years.
    Arroyo should never go to the pen. He gives you 200 innings every season. You never take a starter out of the rotation who can do that. I agree with you about extending him too. It seems most view it as a foregone conclusion that he's gone after this season. Unless there is some injury or a very dramatic dropoff in performance in the 2nd half the Reds should talk to him about extending for a couple of seasons. 200 innings a season will be very hard to replace.
    Reds Fan Since 1971

  8. Likes:

    benchpress (04-24-2013), REDREAD (04-24-2013)

  9. #20
    Viva la Rolen kaldaniels's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    7,541

    Re: Tony Cingrani Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by cumberlandreds View Post
    Arroyo should never go to the pen. He gives you 200 innings every season. You never take a starter out of the rotation who can do that. I agree with you about extending him too. It seems most view it as a foregone conclusion that he's gone after this season. Unless there is some injury or a very dramatic dropoff in performance in the 2nd half the Reds should talk to him about extending for a couple of seasons. 200 innings a season will be very hard to replace.
    That's the key. I don't mind Arroyo leaving if things (money) just can't be worked out. He has more than earned his keep. But then going into 2014 you pretty much have to divvy up his 200 IP amongst the guys we currently have (obviously a new guy in the rotation will get the majority). That is easier said than done.

  10. #21
    All work and no play..... Vottomatic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Lebanon
    Posts
    7,067

    Re: Tony Cingrani Thread

    The thing about Arroyo in comparison to the other guys is that rubber arm guys, in my opinion, seem to have less potential for injuries. Sure, he has a lot of mileage on that arm and shoulder, but other than a sickness (Mono), Arroyo has been amazingly durable.

    It might make more sense to extend him, and if someone has to go, dangle one of Latos, Bailey or Cueto for a quality trade return.

    Because I'm sure Arroyo is as undervalued around the league as Reds fans undervalue him. Yet, he's pretty darn good.
    "I can't take this homerism anymore." - 10xWSChamps, August 11, 2010. A Cardinals fan having a problem with all the homerism on Redszone. Classic.

    "Man do I miss the days where were didn't need a calculator and an encyclopedia of baseball metrics to enjoy a baseball game ... - MikeS21" - 8/2/12 game thread

  11. #22
    Moderator Plus Plus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Indianapolis, IN
    Posts
    1,449

    Re: Tony Cingrani Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by kaldaniels View Post
    I have seen it mentioned in the minors Cingrani threw fastballs 90 percent of the time. What has that percentage been in his 2 starts in Cincinnati?
    So far, Fangraphs has him at:

    77.5% fastball
    14.5% slider
    8.0% changeup

    Seeing as how pitch fx will at times show 94 mph Chapman pitches as changeups, I would take these numbers with a grain of salt, but there they are.
    Quote Originally Posted by westofyou View Post
    Thus his team was punished

    Long live punishment

  12. Likes:

    marcshoe (04-27-2013), REDREAD (04-24-2013)

  13. #23
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    33,868

    Re: Tony Cingrani Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by kaldaniels View Post
    I have seen it mentioned in the minors Cingrani threw fastballs 90 percent of the time. What has that percentage been in his 2 starts in Cincinnati?
    81% in start one, 74% in start two.

    I covered a lot of Cingrani's first two starts this morning at my site.

    http://redsminorleagues.com/2013/04/...-for-the-reds/


  14. Likes:

    *BaseClogger* (04-24-2013), marcshoe (04-27-2013), REDREAD (04-24-2013), thatcoolguy_22 (04-26-2013), Tom Servo (04-24-2013)

  15. #24
    Burn It Jamz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    413

    Re: Tony Cingrani Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Caveat Emperor View Post
    Don't know -- Arroyo is criminally undervalued by Reds fans. Not only should he not be moved to the bullpen, I think the Reds should be seriously exploring the possibility of extending him another 2 years.
    I guess I should clarify. It wasn't meant as disrespect to Arroyo, it's just that if Cingrani continues the way he has I think that he's worth keeping in the rotation -- and he's pitching better than pretty much anyone else on the team. In that case I value a guy like Arroyo or Leake that would be able to be a 'long reliever' of sorts. It certainly wouldn't hurt for one year, but Arroyo was more of an afterthought just because he always seems to pitch well the first to second time through a line-up (mostly because he relies so much on deception).

    I have much respect for Arroyo and the way he bounced back from the worst year of his career.

    Also just saw Doug's graph...if that becomes a trend it's promising that he may recognize that overuse of his fastball won't cut it in the Majors.
    I see great things in baseball. It's our game.

  16. #25
    Pre-tty, pre-tty good!! MWM's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2001
    Posts
    12,324

    Re: Tony Cingrani Thread

    Even on TV his fastball is deceiving. I watched the first time last night and it looks like he's throwing serious gas just to have it come up at 89-90 on the radar. I'm sure it's a function of his slow windup and smooth delivery but if you just looked at him without looking at the ball you'd think he was just loosening up.

    To be able to throw it even 90 with that kind of motion/effort....or whatever you want to call it.... may have the same effect on a hitter of one several mph faster. I don't know how sustainable it is, but watching hitters react is similar to how some react to Chapman's pitches. They seemed to be swinging at a lot of bad pitches, and looking really bad in the process. It's like they just can't pick up on the ball. It's really interesting. I can't think of many pitchers that would fool even someone watching on TV.
    Grape works as a soda. Sort of as a gum. I wonder why it doesn't work as a pie. Grape pie? There's no grape pie. - Larry David

  17. Likes:

    REDREAD (04-24-2013)

  18. #26
    Rally Onion! Chip R's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Cincinnati, OH
    Posts
    34,186

    Re: Tony Cingrani Thread

    [QUOTE=MWM;2840011They seemed to be swinging at a lot of bad pitches, and looking really bad in the process. It's like they just can't pick up on the ball. It's really interesting. I can't think of many pitchers that would fool even someone watching on TV.[/QUOTE]

    That seems to be the consensus. I heard on the radio someone talking about him and they were saying his fastball is like hitting against no background. I don't know why that is but if that's the case, I can see why it's tough to pick up.
    The Rally Onion wants 150 fans before Opening Day.

    http://www.facebook.com/pages/Rally-...24872650873160

  19. #27
    Where's my chair? REDREAD's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2000
    Posts
    20,778

    Re: Tony Cingrani Thread

    When Cueto comes back, I send Cingrani down to AAA regardless of the results.
    Let him keep working on his secondary pitches down there.
    In AAA, he should be throwing the percentage of fastballs/mix of pitches that they want him to throw in the majors. Period. Even if that damages his AAA stats.


    I've been a big fan of Cingrani, but he's exceeded my expectations so far.
    I still think he can benefit from finishing the year in AAA.
    The Reds will also benefit. The season is still young. Having Cingrani stashed in AAA as a 6th starter (or late season addition to the bullpen) is an incredible weapon/insurance policy.
    Thank you Walt and Bob for going for it in 2010-2014!

    Nov. 13, 2007: One of the greatest days in Reds history: John Allen gets the boot!

  20. #28
    Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Posts
    3,736

    Re: Tony Cingrani Thread

    How many innings can he pitch this season? I'd love for him to get close to that maximum and then come up and pitch out of the bullpen for us as a late season / postseason stud out of the pen

  21. #29
    Et tu, Brutus? Brutus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Atlanta, Ga.
    Posts
    10,201

    Re: Tony Cingrani Thread

    I'm still on the fence about Cingriani -- sort of in wait-and-see mode -- but I don't see why the Reds have to do anything right now. They could put him back in Louisville the rest of the season and if Arroyo comes off the books this offseason, they could stick him in the rotation next year. If the Reds decide to re-sign Arroyo, they'll have a more difficult decision to make. Right now though, I don't see why any personnel moves would have to be made. It would actually be foolish to do so.
    "No matter how good you are, you're going to lose one-third of your games. No matter how bad you are you're going to win one-third of your games. It's the other third that makes the difference." ~Tommy Lasorda

  22. Likes:

    Homer Bailey (04-24-2013), thatcoolguy_22 (04-26-2013)

  23. #30
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    33,868

    Re: Tony Cingrani Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by TeamSelig View Post
    How many innings can he pitch this season? I'd love for him to get close to that maximum and then come up and pitch out of the bullpen for us as a late season / postseason stud out of the pen
    He should be ok with 185-190.


Turn Off Ads?

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Board Moderators may, at their discretion and judgment, delete and/or edit any messages that violate any of the following guidelines: 1. Explicit references to alleged illegal or unlawful acts. 2. Graphic sexual descriptions. 3. Racial or ethnic slurs. 4. Use of edgy language (including masked profanity). 5. Direct personal attacks, flames, fights, trolling, baiting, name-calling, general nuisance, excessive player criticism or anything along those lines. 6. Posting spam. 7. Each person may have only one user account. It is fine to be critical here - that's what this board is for. But let's not beat a subject or a player to death, please.

Thank you, and most importantly, enjoy yourselves!


RedsZone.com is a privately owned website and is not affiliated with the Cincinnati Reds or Major League Baseball


Contact us: Boss | GIK | BCubb2003 | dabvu2498 | Gallen5862 | LexRedsFan | Plus Plus | RedlegJake | redsfan1995 | The Operator | Tommyjohn25