Tony Cingrani Thread

[bigredmechanism]

Is this Cingrani?

"I don't always pitch in the major leagues. But when I do, I dominate. Stay crafty, my friends."

[edabbs44]

woy, I know you are good with the data sets, how many rookie pitchers have approached 28/4 k/bb in their first three starts?

I can't imagine there are many names on a list like that who turned out to be terrible.

Dice K

But I don't know if this type of performance in a 3 game sample should be used as a legitimate predictor of future performance.

[texasdave]

woy, I know you are good with the data sets, how many rookie pitchers have approached 28/4 k/bb in their first three starts?

I can't imagine there are many names on a list like that who turned out to be terrible.

Baseball-reference has a list of those pitchers that struck out at least six in their first three starts. Short list. The list is from June, 2010. At that time Strasburg was the only pitcher to strike out at least eight in his first three starts. He needs to make room for Tony Cingrani now.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/6870

Fernando Valenzuela did not make it because he only struck out five in his first start. His first seven starts in The Show are amazing.

[Unassisted]

I know the service time deal is an issue and that organizations have to be aware of it...but i also wonder the long term cost in keeping a player from earning something when he has proven he deserves those benefits. It causes ill will and it makes the organization look small and without their employees interests in mind (notice i did not say "best" interests....it's not the organizations job to take care of the employee).

That's a fair point. But this kind of thinking's not unprecedented in this organization. I've read on this very board that the Reds held Joey Votto's introduction to the majors back for service time reasons and rumors that he resented it. That seems to have worked out in the Reds favor for the long run and it hasn't poisoned the well for signings or free agents.

[Billy Hamilton's Legs]

I know the service time deal is an issue and that organizations have to be aware of it...but i also wonder the long term cost in keeping a player from earning something when he has proven he deserves those benefits. It causes ill will and it makes the organization look small and without their employees interests in mind (notice i did not say "best" interests....it's not the organizations job to take care of the employee).

Yea, that's absolutely something to take into consideration. It's less that I want to actively keep cingrani from getting ML service time and more that given the Leake situation, it makes the decision to send him back down a little easier. We already have 2 long men in Simon and Hoover (and you could probably count Lecure here too), so adding another one that might be even less effective seems counterproductive. All in all, these problems are good to have. It's crazy to think how far we've come in the past decade

[Unassisted]

A good LH starter is needed on this team especially in a park like GAB, small windows in small markets, I wouldn't let arb worries limit getting the best arms slotted every five days.

Look at it this way, then. With Dusty as the manager, and assuming 5 healthy starters, the only rotation slot available to Cingrani will be Leake's. (It would be disrespectful in Dusty's world to slot an unproven rookie above any of the other 4 veterans.) Since the #5 starter gets skipped after off-days, Cingrani will get less than steady work or mop-up duty between starts. Wouldn't it be better for Cingrani's development to give him steady work at the top of Louisville's rotation than to put him through that uneven slog in the 5-slot?

[westofyou]

Look at it this way, then. With Dusty as the manager, and assuming 5 healthy starters, the only rotation slot available to Cingrani will be Leake's. (It would be disrespectful in Dusty's world to slot an unproven rookie above any of the other 4 veterans.) Since the #5 starter gets skipped after off-days, Cingrani will get less than steady work or mop-up duty between starts. Wouldn't it be better for Cingrani's development to give him steady work at the top of Louisville's rotation than to put him through that uneven slog in the 5-slot?

Look at it this way, if Cintgrani strikes out 61% of the batters he faces in MLB his development is going to shoot him up the ladder in the rotation, even if Dusty is manager (as for your rookie theory Shawn Estes says hello)

[OnBaseMachine]

I'm a huge Cingrani fan, and I had no idea he could throw 95-96 mph. After having some command issues his first start, his last two starts have been dominant. He's locating his fastball darn near perfectly, and he even breaks off a sharp breaking ball when needed. That breaking ball in the dirt to strikeout Span was filthy. If he gains consistent command of his changeup/breaking ball, we could be looking at an ace to go along with Cueto, Latos, and Bailey.

[Caveat Emperor]

I keep waiting for the other shoe to drop.

It'd be criminal to pull him out of there before it does, IMO.

[dougdirt]

Here is the logic most are missing. The Reds didn't think Cingrani was ready coming out of Spring Training. He still had things to accomplish in AAA. So are we to believe that he accomplished those things in 14 and third innings in AAA? If they thought he was ready for that, why did they send him down to begin with?

In spring training, Tony Cingrani was still throwing a pure slider. In AAA and now in the Majors, he is throwing a curveball. So, in theory at least, we could say that yes, he did accomplish those things in AAA if the question was his breaking ball (his curveball is far more consistent than his slider ever was).

If he was ready, they still could have sent him down in the spring for a bunch of reasons. Saving his playing time to keep him that extra year. Not pushing out Mike Leake yet. Listening to Dusty Baker talk, he said that Chapman and Leake weren't even competing for the same spot on the roster. Now maybe that was just him talking because he never wanted Chapman as a starter, but if Chapman and Leake weren't fighting for the same spot, Leake and Cingrani certainly weren't. Even if they should have been.

[RedEye]

Interesting take from CBS Sports. Yes, I know it is from a Fantasy writer, but it seems right to me:

Reds pitcher Tony Cingrani will face a major hurdle in his development Friday against the Cubs.

For the first time in his career, Cingrani will face a team that has already seen his stuff. Cingrani is known for his deceptive delivery, which helps him hide his fastball. He's been able to get by with an extreme fastball-heavy approach thus far, and only features two primary pitches.

The start may give Fantasy owners some insight into whether Cingrani's approach is sustainable moving forward. The Cubs will be able to rely on personal experience, and video, to scout Cingrani this time around, and it could help them adjust to his windup. It might seem like a normal start, but it could have a big impact on how Cingrani will perform this year.

I will be watching this next one with great interest, that's for sure.

[cumberlandreds]

Interesting take from CBS Sports. Yes, I know it is from a Fantasy writer, but it seems right to me:



I will be watching this next one with great interest, that's for sure.

Actually it will be Saturday unless they skip Leake. Yes it will be interesting the 2nd time around the league. If he's as dominant or nearly the 2nd and 3rd time around the leage then we can really excited. But its hard not to be exited at the moment.

[dougdirt]

Cingrani has thrown his fastball 81.2%, 74.5% and 86.4% in each of his three starts. Clearly, that is a whole lot of fastball reliance, more so than just about anyone in the game. With that said, it isn't out of necessity. He has two other pitches that he can use. His curveball is good enough that he is already throwing it 10-18% of the time and his change up, which scouts believe is his second best pitch is there, but he is only throwing a few per game. He has other pitches to lean on some more if he needs to, and that is a really good thing.

[RedEye]

Cingrani has thrown his fastball 81.2%, 74.5% and 86.4% in each of his three starts. Clearly, that is a whole lot of fastball reliance, more so than just about anyone in the game. With that said, it isn't out of necessity. He has two other pitches that he can use. His curveball is good enough that he is already throwing it 10-18% of the time and his change up, which scouts believe is his second best pitch is there, but he is only throwing a few per game. He has other pitches to lean on some more if he needs to, and that is a really good thing.

So are you starting to believe, Doug? Or, should I say, are you starting to believe Cingrani may actually be able to sustain this type of performance (or something close to it) in MLB?

[muethibp]

I'm thrilled with Cingrani's last few starts. He was awfully fun to watch yesterday.

Still, I am trying to keep my excitement at an appropriate level given that it's just been a few starts. On top of that, when I watch him pitch, I am surprised at how effective he is - his stuff doesn't seem so good as to miss this many bats and I wonder if it is sustainable.