Just call me Legs
GAC...its more than 3 starts. He has established one helluva track record as he's moved through the minors. Each step up, we've been told, NOW will be the time he's found out. And each step up he puts up the same crazy lines.
Just saying, its not like he's a cipher. Or that this is out of line with what he has done at each stop...
Perhaps when he moves up to the league above this one he will finally be found out...
Here is the logic most are missing. The Reds didn't think Cingrani was ready coming out of Spring Training. He still had things to accomplish in AAA. So are we to believe that he accomplished those things in 14 and third innings in AAA? He's come up and he's doing well with the things he does have, but it's working, IMO, because he's new to the league. Familiarity will catch-up to him unless he adds those other facets to his game that he was sent down to work on. The team could ride him for a while and he'd probably be a real asset for a couple of months, but then what? Another arm goes down, the league will have caught-up to Cingrani and he won't have the assortment he needs to adjust. After him, there is no one that I want to see making a start in this rotation and the team may be a starter short. I'm loving what Cingrani is doing now, but I want him for the long haul, not as some one pitch wonder who flashes hot for a month or two and then gets pounded.
The season goes, hopefully, deep into October. The Reds are going to need Cingrani at the end IMO. If that means he goes down for a while when the opportunity presents itself with the others all healthy, I say it's the smart play. If his other stuff comes along at the big league level and the team thinks he can adjust when he needs to, then by all means, send Leake to the pen and keep Cingrani in there. OTOH, if this is him getting by on one pitch, I think it's short sighted to ride him until it stops working unless they think he's ready to adjust. If they thought he was ready for that, why did they send him down to begin with?
"All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH
Having better players makes "the right time" or "the big hit" happen a lot more often. PLUS PLUS
"A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky, dangerous animals and you know it."
I will do my best to explain some things, and if I am off on something please correct me. Yet here is my understanding of arbitration and free agency rules....
Super 2 status does not affect his free agency. It just makes him eligible for arbitration a year sooner. Super 2 is variable, but teams normally wait until June to prevent Super 2 status (I won't go into all the rules about Super 2). Super 2 is not as big of a deal for fans since it's all about money. So the only concern there is the team paying a guy a few million more for 1 year.
For free agency, a full year of service time is 172 days on the active 25 man roster, DL, in the military (yes, that is one of the rules), or under suspension. The season is 182 days. In order to prevent a minor leaguer from gaining a year of MLB service, they simply have to fall short of the 172 days. Yet, if a guy is on the 40 man roster they need to spend 20 days in the minors for that to subtract from their MLB service time. I believe Cingrani was on the 40 man and did not spend 20 days in the minors (it was really, really close), so if he stays on the 25 man for the season it will count as 1 year MLB service time. IIRC, he also cannot be shut down in September (when rosters expand) and sent down in order to subtract from his MLB service time. He needs to spend 20 consecutive days in the minors between April and August in order to reduce his MLB service time by 1 year.
As noted, Cingrani was really close but was called up on the 18th. That may have been enough, I am not sure. I obviously think the clock starts on opening day, but there may be some other things about what constitutes 20 days in the minors I am missing.
Anyway, that is my best understanding of the rules. So from what I know, Cingrani is in danger of accruing 1 year MLB service time unless he is sent down for 20 days before September.
I know the service time deal is an issue and that organizations have to be aware of it...but i also wonder the long term cost in keeping a player from earning something when he has proven he deserves those benefits. It causes ill will and it makes the organization look small and without their employees interests in mind (notice i did not say "best" interests....it's not the organizations job to take care of the employee).
When an organization is perceived to go out of their way to keep a player down in the mirnors longer than he should be- i think that has long term effects that may out way the benefits. For example -a player entering his free agent year decides that even though he loves the city -he remembers the organization sticking it to him and decides their will be no home town discount. He also spreads the word that the organization goes out of the way to stick it to players.
I fully understand the rights of the organization, but a negative perception is a big animal -and it takes years to overcome and you might have to pay more in the long run cause players won't even take a sniff at what you have to offer. Their is a gentleman down the road from the Reds that is still trying to change his stripes - it won't happen in his lifetime and i believe he's paid a high price for his and his families arrogance in the short and long run.
Service time discussions make my eyes bleed.
So maybe that's a little much, but if nothing else I like the personality types this team has on it. Bruce, Votto, Phillips, Frazier, Latos, Choo - all diverse but yet it seems to fit together very well. Cingrani is no exception. There's no denying what he's accomplished thus far, but I don't doubt there will be some bumps in the road.
Long-term I like his upside a lot better thank Leake's, but I'm not ready to give up on him either, though the leash is noticeably shorter. Enjoy the ride Cingrani is on right now and we can figure out what to do when Cueto is healthy. These things tend to take care of themselves and if not then I think Walt & Co. have earned our trust to make the right decision.
"It's still a long way to the top if we want to rock'n'roll, but at least they dumped the tuba player."
That said, for now I still agree with you that Cingrani goes down once Cueto comes back because the Reds will most likely need a sixth starter for one reason or another between now and the end of the season. But if Cueto is out for another month and Cingrani keep pitching at this pace, I don't see how the Reds take him out of the rotation.
At the very least, this will allow Cueto to fully get healthy without external pressures to rush him back.
Tony Cingrani will be immortalized on Mount Rushmore.
...the 2-2 to Woodsen and here it comes...and it is swung on and missed! And Tom Browning has pitched a perfect game! Twenty-seven outs in a row, and he is being mobbed by his teammates, just to the thirdbase side of the mound.
Caveat Emperor (04-29-2013)
Is this Cingrani?