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Thread: Tony Cingrani Thread

  1. #196
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Tony Cingrani Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by RedEye View Post
    So are you starting to believe, Doug? Or, should I say, are you starting to believe Cingrani may actually be able to sustain this type of performance (or something close to it) in MLB?
    When I saw his new curveball in his first start in Louisville, I said this:

    Cingrani threw the best breaking balls I have ever seen him throw in this game and it wasn’t particularly close. They weren’t all good ones, but there were more good ones than bad ones and the good ones were really good.

    After the second start I said this:

    The good news though, is that like his first start, the breaking ball was once again a good one. Some were better than others and a few weren’t quite good, but compared to last year it is a big step in the right direction. And also unlike last year, he is mixing his pitches much better than he has in the past.

    My concern has always been the breaking ball. I wasn't sold on his slider. It was still a very poor pitch after years of throwing it (he would flash it as a good pitch at times, but very often it just flat out stunk). New breaking ball that is good enough and that he can throw in the strikezone = me being sold on him being a starter. I said this the day before he took the mound for his first start. I was slightly wrong so far.

    I wouldn’t expect him to be a dominating top of the rotation guy right out of the gate (well, maybe right out of the gate against the hapless Marlins lineup). I do believe that he can put up middle-of-the-rotation numbers out of the gate with an ability to dominate at times, especially against lefty heavy lineups with his improved/new breaking ball.

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  3. #197
    Member Wonderful Monds's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    When I saw his new curveball in his first start in Louisville, I said this:

    Cingrani threw the best breaking balls I have ever seen him throw in this game and it wasn’t particularly close. They weren’t all good ones, but there were more good ones than bad ones and the good ones were really good.

    After the second start I said this:

    The good news though, is that like his first start, the breaking ball was once again a good one. Some were better than others and a few weren’t quite good, but compared to last year it is a big step in the right direction. And also unlike last year, he is mixing his pitches much better than he has in the past.

    My concern has always been the breaking ball. I wasn't sold on his slider. It was still a very poor pitch after years of throwing it (he would flash it as a good pitch at times, but very often it just flat out stunk). New breaking ball that is good enough and that he can throw in the strikezone = me being sold on him being a starter. I said this the day before he took the mound for his first start. I was slightly wrong so far.

    I wouldn’t expect him to be a dominating top of the rotation guy right out of the gate (well, maybe right out of the gate against the hapless Marlins lineup). I do believe that he can put up middle-of-the-rotation numbers out of the gate with an ability to dominate at times, especially against lefty heavy lineups with his improved/new breaking ball.
    What would you say are MOR numbers in 2013?
    They don't think it be like it is, but it do.
    Quote Originally Posted by Larry Schuler View Post
    He has also taught me that even when the Reds win it is important to focus on the fact that they could have lost.

  4. #198
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Tony Cingrani Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Wonderful Monds View Post
    What would you say are MOR numbers in 2013?
    ERA around 4.00. I expect the walk rate to go up over time. His command isn't really good at this point, but his walk rate certainly suggests it is.

  5. #199
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    Re: Tony Cingrani Thread

    Is his next start against Texas? That should be a real test for him...although I was more than impressed with how he handled the Nationals line-up.
    I see great things in baseball. It's our game.

  6. #200
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    Re: Tony Cingrani Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Jamz View Post
    Is his next start against Texas? That should be a real test for him...although I was more than impressed with how he handled the Nationals line-up.
    His next projected three starts would be:

    At Chicago
    Milwaukee at GABP
    At Miami

    Reds don't play Texas until the end of June.
    Last edited by cumberlandreds; 04-29-2013 at 02:52 PM. Reason: Wrong third start
    Reds Fan Since 1971

  7. #201
    always ask questions bigredmechanism's Avatar
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    Re: Cingrani for Cy Young/Rookie of the Year?

    Quote Originally Posted by Caveat Emperor View Post
    I keep waiting for the other shoe to drop.

    It'd be criminal to pull him out of there before it does, IMO.
    I agree. They have to keep him up if he stays this effective, and only send him down once the other shoe drops.
    Award Winning Baseball Player

  8. #202
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    Re: Tony Cingrani Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by cumberlandreds View Post
    His next projected three starts would be:

    At Chicago
    Milwaukee at GABP
    At Miami

    Reds don't play Texas until the end of June.
    I must have been confused by something I read about Ogando taking on the Reds next on his Yahoo notes. Or maybe they're confused. I could have just looked up the schedule I guess.
    I see great things in baseball. It's our game.

  9. #203
    13 Belongs in Cooperstown Captain13's Avatar
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    Re: Cingrani for Cy Young/Rookie of the Year?

    Plan Tony Cingrani bobble-head night, Tony Cingrani appreciation day, and prepare his busts for the Reds HOF and Cooperstown; this kid is going to make everyone forget about Koufax, Carlton and Johnson. If he retires now, he might go down as the greatest Reds pitcher ever, heck, who are we kidding? Greatest. Red. Ever.

    WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!
    What if this is as good as it gets?

  10. #204
    13 Belongs in Cooperstown Captain13's Avatar
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    Re: Cingrani for Cy Young/Rookie of the Year?

    Quote Originally Posted by texasdave View Post
    Baseball-reference has a list of those pitchers that struck out at least six in their first three starts. Short list. The list is from June, 2010. At that time Strasburg was the only pitcher to strike out at least eight in his first three starts. He needs to make room for Tony Cingrani now.

    http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/6870

    Fernando Valenzuela did not make it because he only struck out five in his first start. His first seven starts in The Show are amazing.
    That was in his first three appearances, Cingrani still wouldn't make that list because of September. It's a technicality, but that same technicality kept Bob Feller and maybe some others off the list too.
    What if this is as good as it gets?

  11. #205
    All work and no play..... Vottomatic's Avatar
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    Re: Cingrani for Cy Young/Rookie of the Year?

    If only we could get Zach Stewart back. Then this starting pitching lineup would feature 5 Cy Young candidates.
    "I can't take this homerism anymore." - 10xWSChamps, August 11, 2010. A Cardinals fan having a problem with all the homerism on Redszone. Classic.

    "Man do I miss the days where were didn't need a calculator and an encyclopedia of baseball metrics to enjoy a baseball game ... - MikeS21" - 8/2/12 game thread

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  13. #206
    malingered here too long malcontent's Avatar
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    Re: Tony Cingrani Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by RedEye View Post
    Interesting take from CBS Sports. Yes, I know it is from a Fantasy writer, but it seems right to me:
    I will be watching this next one with great interest, that's for sure.
    From what I've seen in his three starts, I'm not buying the idea that he's going to struggle anymore than normal when teams see him multiple times.

    I definitely think the critics are wrong with regard to him.

  14. #207
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    Re: Cingrani for Cy Young/Rookie of the Year?

    Leake to the pen and Simon to AAA. Not been impressed. 4.91 ERA. If Cingrani holds and can pitch anywhere near like he has consistantly we just firmed up one of the few weeknesses on this team - a lefty in the rotation. Leake to the pen who can also PH on days he's not available to pitch.
    And This One Belongs to the REDS!!!

  15. #208
    malingered here too long malcontent's Avatar
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    Re: Tony Cingrani Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    ...and his change up, which scouts believe is his second best pitch is there, but he is only throwing a few per game.
    Doug: on the few times I've seen him throw the changeup, I don't see any tail to it.

    Do you see it? If not, is that a function of his low arm angle, and would it make the pitch less effective?

  16. #209
    Custodial Engineer Bob Sheed's Avatar
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    Re: Cingrani for Cy Young/Rookie of the Year?

    At times, I wonder if some fans are fans of the Reds, or fans of the Reds finances.
    "And why do false truths persist, getting passed down the decades as if they were fact? It comes back to the same point: People believe things that are wrong because, individually, people rarely investigate their own beliefs, particularly when what they believe makes sense intuitively. Even more so when those around them agree with them." -K.F.

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  18. #210
    Where's my chair? REDREAD's Avatar
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    Re: Cingrani for Cy Young/Rookie of the Year?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Sheed View Post
    At times, I wonder if some fans are fans of the Reds, or fans of the Reds finances.
    You mean you aren't proud of the "most profitable franchise in 2000" pennant that is flying in the GAB

    I forget the exact year and the exact verbage, I just remember John Allen bragging about the Reds being the most fiscally healthy franchise once during the DARK AGES.
    Thank you Walt and Bob for going for it in 2010-2014!

    Nov. 13, 2007: One of the greatest days in Reds history: John Allen gets the boot!


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