Turn Off Ads?
Page 16 of 24 FirstFirst ... 6121314151617181920 ... LastLast
Results 226 to 240 of 350

Thread: Tony Cingrani Thread

  1. #226
    Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Cincinnati/Colerain
    Posts
    1,288

    Re: Tony Cingrani Thread

    Reading through this thread you'd think Tony Cingrani was a 16th round draft pick whose fastball tops out at 89 MPH. It's like some people are waiting for him to fail like they know it's going to happen. When I see a lefty throwing his fastball from 92-96 with good location I get excited. But thats just me. Yes his breaking pitches need a little work but this kid has what it takes to be one of if not the greatest pitcher to ever toe the rubber. I just don't get how some can't see this.
    Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/ShaneHorning

  2. Turn Off Ads?
  3. #227
    Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Cincinnati/Colerain
    Posts
    1,288

    Re: Cingrani on pace to be the next Cole Hamels?

    If Cingrani only becomes a Cole Hamels type I'll be slightly disapponited. Hamels is an ace of our time but when I see Cingrani pitch I see potential to be one of the all time greats to ever pitch. Time will tell.
    Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/ShaneHorning

  4. #228
    A Little to the Left Redsfaithful's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    Bexley, OH
    Posts
    7,466

    Re: Cingrani for Cy Young/Rookie of the Year?

    Quote Originally Posted by westofyou View Post
    Off the top of my head Fernando in 1981
    8 complete games in a row to start the season, that's wild. Fernando was pretty good from '81 to '86. He had quite the workload on a young arm.

    Quote Originally Posted by edabbs44 View Post
    Dice K

    But I don't know if this type of performance in a 3 game sample should be used as a legitimate predictor of future performance.
    Nah, probably not, but I find it interesting, especially if you can make a comp list for something like that with no bums on it. And even Dice K had a couple of decent years.

    Cingrani is exciting. Really bizarre that the Reds have so much pitching talent.
    We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
    --Oscar Wilde

  5. Likes:

    wlf WV (04-30-2013)

  6. #229
    KungFu Fighter AtomicDumpling's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Hamilton, OH
    Posts
    2,740

    Re: Tony Cingrani Thread

    Fans' expectations for Cingrani have reached the stratosphere now. What happens when he has a couple bad starts?

  7. #230
    Member RadfordVA's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Posts
    917

    Re: Tony Cingrani Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by AtomicDumpling View Post
    Fans' expectations for Cingrani have reached the stratosphere now. What happens when he has a couple bad starts?
    They will demand he be traded for a below average Leftfielder.

  8. Likes:

    pahster (04-30-2013), wlf WV (04-30-2013)

  9. #231
    KungFu Fighter AtomicDumpling's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Hamilton, OH
    Posts
    2,740

    Re: Cingrani on pace to be the next Cole Hamels?

    Quote Originally Posted by BearcatShane View Post
    If Cingrani only becomes a Cole Hamels type I'll be slightly disapponited. Hamels is an ace of our time but when I see Cingrani pitch I see potential to be one of the all time greats to ever pitch. Time will tell.
    Bold statement. I would wait for Cingrani to get three seasons under his belt instead of three games before I make a statement like that one. I hope you are right!

  10. #232
    Member RadfordVA's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Posts
    917

    Re: Cingrani on pace to be the next Cole Hamels?

    If Cingrani becomes more than a Cole Hamels type I don't think he will be playing most of his career in Cincy. 144 million reasons he will move on to somewhere else.

  11. #233
    THAT'S A FACT JACK!! GAC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2001
    Location
    Bellefontaine, Ohio
    Posts
    26,671

    Re: Tony Cingrani Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by membengal View Post
    GAC...its more than 3 starts.
    Not at the major league level.

    He has established one helluva track record as he's moved through the minors. Each step up, we've been told, NOW will be the time he's found out. And each step up he puts up the same crazy lines.
    This is true. At each level he has excelled. And that performance (progress) merits him being them promoted to the next level. And any player's success at the minor league level merits further promotion. There is no arguing that. But success in the minors does not necessarily translate into success at this level.

    I'm simply addressing some of the pronouncements being made, which IMO are rather rash, that after 3 starts, at this level, this FO needs to be looking at making this kid a staple in our rotation when Cueto returns. Too small of a window IMO to be making such judgments. It very well could prove to be true. Lets just wait and see. There is no rush.

    I love what I've seen so far from this kid. I love his attitude, the way he attacks the batter (strike zone). He doesn't seem to be intimidated. But he basically has two pitches - the FB and curve, and relies, IMO, too much on the FB. That, and the fact he is an "unknown" to major league level hitters around the league are not factors that should be so easily discounted.

    I think mth123 makes valid points.....

    Quote Originally Posted by mth123 View Post
    Here is the logic most are missing. The Reds didn't think Cingrani was ready coming out of Spring Training. He still had things to accomplish in AAA. So are we to believe that he accomplished those things in 14 and third innings in AAA? He's come up and he's doing well with the things he does have, but it's working, IMO, because he's new to the league. Familiarity will catch-up to him unless he adds those other facets to his game that he was sent down to work on. The team could ride him for a while and he'd probably be a real asset for a couple of months, but then what? Another arm goes down, the league will have caught-up to Cingrani and he won't have the assortment he needs to adjust. After him, there is no one that I want to see making a start in this rotation and the team may be a starter short. I'm loving what Cingrani is doing now, but I want him for the long haul, not as some one pitch wonder who flashes hot for a month or two and then gets pounded.
    Personally, I think he'll be sent back down once Johnny returns. And not because he merits it, but for other valid reasons that will supersede his performance....

    1) He has options. They don't have that with the other SPs, other then giving someone their outright release. No one, including Leake, at this stage, merits that. They aren't going to "disrupt" their starting rotation when they don't need to (that's key). They'll send him down knowing that Cingrani answered some questions for them as far as the ability to pitch at this level. They'll keep him in "reserve" at AAA where he can pitch regularly, work on other pitches, and be "on call" if the need arises.

    If the kid is the real deal then he'll be back. That we know for certain. I think we'll get to know more about him, as far as evaluation goes, over the next month (several more starts).
    "panic" only comes from having real expectations

  12. #234
    Member membengal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Baltimore
    Posts
    9,055

    Re: Tony Cingrani Thread

    Yes, three starts in the majors, GAC. I get that. But this weird "he has to prove it" stuff that people fall back on with regard to kids moving into the majors always feels odd to me, as there is no way to "prove it" without getting a chance to...prove it.

    So how to determine if someone should get that chance? Well, all we have there, really, from our viewpoint (since we don't get to hang with scouts etc.), is what they have done in the minors. And Cingrani's minors track record is exemplary. And what he has done in three starts in the majors is in line with what we saw in the minors. It isn't like this is someone with a career 4.26 FIP in the minors and a middling K:BB ratio throughout his minor league stops and has then turned in a 3-start supernova in the majors out of line with what we have seen before. No, this is pretty much who Cingrani has been as he has moved up.

    So, really, "its just 3 starts" is a nice thing to recite and what not, but it isn't like that "just 3 starts" is divorced from the body of work he has turned in before this...
    Last edited by membengal; 04-30-2013 at 06:11 AM.

  13. #235
    Big Red Machine RedsBaron's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2000
    Location
    Out Wayne
    Posts
    22,834

    Re: Cingrani for Cy Young/Rookie of the Year?

    Quote Originally Posted by Caveat Emperor View Post
    Flags fly forever. Go for the championships now -- no one wants to spin yarns to their grandkids about those "Pretty good, but not great" Reds teams of the early-2010s.
    Exactly. If the current Reds were years away from contention I could understand an argument not to let Cingrani achieve Super Two status, but the 2013 Reds are built to win now.
    "Hey...Dad. Wanna Have A Catch?" Kevin Costner in "Field Of Dreams."

  14. #236
    Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Posts
    913

    Re: Cingrani for Cy Young/Rookie of the Year?

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsBaron View Post
    Exactly. If the current Reds were years away from contention I could understand an argument not to let Cingrani achieve Super Two status, but the 2013 Reds are built to win now.
    I personally don't care about Super 2. That is just money, and it takes over 2 months in order to prevent Super 2. Yet for free agency it's 20 days in the minors. That is essentially 3 starts and you have him under control for another year. When Cueto comes back I am fine with sending him down for 20 days and letting Leake pitch 3 more times. Heck, they have a bunch of off days in the next 2 months and could even skip the 5 spot a couple of times. It could work out to 2 starts and maybe even just 1 start.

  15. Likes:

    Unassisted (04-30-2013)

  16. #237
    Member membengal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Baltimore
    Posts
    9,055
    Maybe leake should go down to AAA and prove something for 20 days...

  17. #238
    Member 757690's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Dayton
    Posts
    10,542

    Re: Cingrani for Cy Young/Rookie of the Year?

    Quote Originally Posted by scott91575 View Post
    I personally don't care about Super 2. That is just money, and it takes over 2 months in order to prevent Super 2. Yet for free agency it's 20 days in the minors. That is essentially 3 starts and you have him under control for another year. When Cueto comes back I am fine with sending him down for 20 days and letting Leake pitch 3 more times. Heck, they have a bunch of off days in the next 2 months and could even skip the 5 spot a couple of times. It could work out to 2 starts and maybe even just 1 start.
    If Cingrani spends the rest of the season on the MLB roster, he will spend 165 days on the roster, which is not enough to qualify for a full season. 172 is what is necessary. So no need to send him down to slow his free agency clock.
    "Man, the pitch looks fast, even in slow motion." Thom Brennaman on Chapman's fastball.

  18. #239
    No half measures, Walter RedEye's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Atlanta, GA
    Posts
    8,058
    Quote Originally Posted by BearcatShane View Post
    If Cingrani only becomes a Cole Hamels type I'll be slightly disapponited. Hamels is an ace of our time but when I see Cingrani pitch I see potential to be one of the all time greats to ever pitch. Time will tell.
    Sarcasm?
    "Iíll kind of have a foot on the back of my own butt. Thatís just how I do things.Ē -- Bryan Price, 10/22/2013

  19. #240
    Moderator RedlegJake's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    North Kansas City, Mo
    Posts
    5,813

    Re: Tony Cingrani Thread

    what Tony is doing simply makes the Arroyo decision simpler. For this season Cingrani is great insurance...and he can pitch from the pen, something Leake has not looked good at (small sample alert). Leake cannot be sent down so that choice is moot. If no one else is DLed Cingrani goes to thr pen or back to AAA. If he goes down it won't be for long. last years no DL magic is over and gone. The Reds will win this division without TC....but I believe he needs to be in the rotation by September no matter what. Then the Reds have a front four for the playoffs, where you need just 4 starters, that match anyone. Leake, far from the dispersions cast at him, is a solid end rotation starter. His numbers are soso because he has terrible games when he is off but he also throws a number of very very starts. And that consistency is the difference between being TOR or end. Just tossing him aside or trading him would be very foolish. So, part of the decision will be roster influenced - and you cannot demote Leake without losing him. That means another starter gets dld, you release or trade Leake, or boot someone from the pen and use Cingrani there(far more effective scenario than imagining Leake walking in from the pen in a tie game 7th with the Cards) or you send TC down to keep him on the rotation in Louisville ready to come back. What Tony does this year makes the Arroyo decision easy and frees a good chunk of money this winter(gone in raises but it will at least mean perhaps they won't have to look at dealing someone just to hold the budget in line).

  20. Likes:

    REDREAD (04-30-2013)


Turn Off Ads?

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Board Moderators may, at their discretion and judgment, delete and/or edit any messages that violate any of the following guidelines: 1. Explicit references to alleged illegal or unlawful acts. 2. Graphic sexual descriptions. 3. Racial or ethnic slurs. 4. Use of edgy language (including masked profanity). 5. Direct personal attacks, flames, fights, trolling, baiting, name-calling, general nuisance, excessive player criticism or anything along those lines. 6. Posting spam. 7. Each person may have only one user account. It is fine to be critical here - that's what this board is for. But let's not beat a subject or a player to death, please.

Thank you, and most importantly, enjoy yourselves!


RedsZone.com is a privately owned website and is not affiliated with the Cincinnati Reds or Major League Baseball


Contact us: Boss | GIK | BCubb2003 | dabvu2498 | Gallen5862 | LexRedsFan | Plus Plus | RedlegJake | redsfan1995 | The Operator | Tommyjohn25