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Thread: Tony Cingrani Thread

  1. #241
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    Re: Cingrani for Cy Young/Rookie of the Year?

    Quote Originally Posted by 757690 View Post
    If Cingrani spends the rest of the season on the MLB roster, he will spend 165 days on the roster, which is not enough to qualify for a full season. 172 is what is necessary. So no need to send him down to slow his free agency clock.
    I mentioned this earlier in the thread.

    If a player is on the 40 man roster he needs to spend at least 20 consecutive days in the minors for it to subtract from his days on the 25 man roster. If he spends less than 20 days in the minors, it counts towards his days on a MLB roster. He did not spend 20 consecutive days in the minors yet, and therefore has not had any time subtracted from his days on a MLB 25 man roster.

    Now, if he wasn't on the 40 man to start the season you would be right. Yet that is not the case here.
    Last edited by scott91575; 04-30-2013 at 09:29 AM.

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  3. #242
    always ask questions bigredmechanism's Avatar
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    Re: Cingrani on pace to be the next Cole Hamels?

    It's Hall of Fame or bust for this young man, at this point.
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  4. #243
    Rally Onion! Chip R's Avatar
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    Re: Cingrani on pace to be the next Cole Hamels?

    Quote Originally Posted by RadfordVA View Post
    If Cingrani becomes more than a Cole Hamels type I don't think he will be playing most of his career in Cincy. 144 million reasons he will move on to somewhere else.
    Right. Just like how Joey Votto is playing for the Yankees now.
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  6. #244
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    Re: Cingrani for Cy Young/Rookie of the Year?

    Quote Originally Posted by scott91575 View Post
    I mentioned this earlier in the thread.

    If a player is on the 40 man roster he needs to spend at least 20 consecutive days in the minors for it to subtract from his days on the 25 man roster. If he spends less than 20 days in the minors, it counts towards his days on a MLB roster. He did not spend 20 consecutive days in the minors yet, and therefore has not had any time subtracted from his days on a MLB 25 man roster.

    Now, if he wasn't on the 40 man to start the season you would be right. Yet that is not the case here.
    Do spring training days count? When was he sent down in spring training? I would think he has spent 20 consecutive days in the minors, if you count the time he spent on the AAA roster in spring training. He was recalled April 18th.
    "I donít know the key to success, but the key to failure is trying to please everybody".
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    Re: Cingrani for Cy Young/Rookie of the Year?

    Quote Originally Posted by 757690 View Post
    Do spring training days count? When was he sent down in spring training? I would think he has spent 20 consecutive days in the minors, if you count the time he spent on the AAA roster in spring training. He was recalled April 18th.
    I made a post on this. Unless I am missing something, the season starts on opening day, not Spring training. This is a very common thing every year. The 21st day of the season and early to mid June are common times for calling up prospects. The former is to add a year to free agency, and the latter is to avoid Super 2.

    If anything it's worse if you count the minors because their season did not start until April 4th. I would think Spring Training is just like September (which doesn't count either BTW). In order to get a year increase in Cingrani's free agency eligibility he will need to spend 20 consecutive days in the minors between now and September call ups.

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    Re: Tony Cingrani Thread

    In case you were wondering, the 20 day requirement is due to the options rules. A player must spend 20 days in the minors and be on the 40 man in order to burn an option. So an option has not been used on Cingrani yet this year.

  9. #247
    Member Tom Servo's Avatar
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    Re: Cingrani on pace to be the next Cole Hamels?

    Cingrani on pace to be the next Steve Carlton?
    "Since I've been with the Reds in 1989, we've never had a farm system this loaded," Bowden said. "If we were the New York Yankees and had unlimited dollars, we could have traded for Colon, (Jeff) Weaver, Rolen, (Cliff) Floyd, (Kenny) Rogers and Finley and gotten them all -- and still held onto our top five prospects. That's an amazing statement."

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    Re: Tony Cingrani Thread

    Well, regardless of the financial aspects of the issue, if the Reds are really trying to win, then until Cingrani pitches his way back out of the rotation he should stay in the rotation. He is the Reds 2nd or 3rd best starter right now easily. Leake can take a seat. Too bad, this is professional baseball, nobody should be guaranteed anything. Anybody notice how many different pitches Cingrani throws? What is that? 2 and one of them is not very good at this point?

    Huh...you gotta wonder how the Reds could possibly think he could remain a starter...(sorry, sarcasm here in case it was missed)...I love to watch this kid pitch. Keep on rolling!

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  11. #249
    always ask questions bigredmechanism's Avatar
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    Re: Cingrani on pace to be the next Cole Hamels?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Servo View Post
    Cingrani on pace to be the next Steve Carlton?
    I think Carlton was on pace to become a Tony Cingrani but he aged too soon. Tony very well may end up with 650 career wins.
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  12. #250
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    Re: Cingrani for Cy Young/Rookie of the Year?

    Quote Originally Posted by Redsfaithful View Post
    woy, I know you are good with the data sets, how many rookie pitchers have approached 28/4 k/bb in their first three starts?

    I can't imagine there are many names on a list like that who turned out to be terrible.
    Cueto had a decent little 24/1 k/bb in his first three starts in 2008.

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  14. #251
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    Re: Cingrani for Cy Young/Rookie of the Year?

    Quote Originally Posted by scott91575 View Post
    I personally don't care about Super 2. That is just money, and it takes over 2 months in order to prevent Super 2. Yet for free agency it's 20 days in the minors. That is essentially 3 starts and you have him under control for another year. When Cueto comes back I am fine with sending him down for 20 days and letting Leake pitch 3 more times. Heck, they have a bunch of off days in the next 2 months and could even skip the 5 spot a couple of times. It could work out to 2 starts and maybe even just 1 start.
    Perfect move for an organization that's been trying to shed a negative reputation earned over decades of Schott and Linder ownership as being pro bottom-line / anti-player.

    Doing roster-voodoo to deny one of your system-guys a payday years down the road doesn't exactly create the kind of environment that makes people say "I want to be a Cincinnati Red for life."
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  16. #252
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    Re: Tony Cingrani Thread

    Here are the rules from the CBA:


    A player promoted from the minor leagues is credited with ML service beginning with the date he physically reports.
    Service time is not interrupted when a Major League player is traded and reports to his new club in the normal course (within 72 hours).
    A player demoted to the minor leagues is credited with ML service through the date of the assignment.
    A player who is unconditionally released is credited with ML service through the date he was notified of his release.
    A Major League player designated for release or assignment continues to be credited with service after the designation, through the date of the actual assignment or the date he is notified of his unconditional release.
    For a player who appears on the opening day roster, ML service time is credited as of the earliest scheduled opener, without regard to the actual opening date of his own club.
    ML service time is not credited during any period or periods of optional assignment totaling 20 days or more during a single season.
    Looks to me like Cingrani doesn't have to spend anymore time in the minors. The 20 day rule seems only to apply to players optioned during the season to the minors for more than 20 days. I don't see anything about consecutive days either.

    The key rule is the first one. Cingrani's service time started the day he physically appeared with the team, which was April 18th. That would give him only 165 days of service time this season, less than a full season.
    "I donít know the key to success, but the key to failure is trying to please everybody".
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  17. #253
    always ask questions bigredmechanism's Avatar
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    Re: Cingrani for Cy Young/Rookie of the Year?

    Quote Originally Posted by Caveat Emperor View Post
    Perfect move for an organization that's been trying to shed a negative reputation earned over decades of Schott and Linder ownership as being pro bottom-line / anti-player.

    Doing roster-voodoo to deny one of your system-guys a payday years down the road doesn't exactly create the kind of environment that makes people say "I want to be a Cincinnati Red for life."
    Agreed 100%. Besides, this isn't the mid 2000s where we are just hoping to win 81+ games. We are a legitimate world series contender, and at this point we should be going with the best possible team so we can achieve that goal. So far, its obvious that Cingrani belongs on this team. If he's not up here while Cueto is hurt, it's going to get ugly with a guy like Galarraga.
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  18. #254
    Where's my chair? REDREAD's Avatar
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    Re: Tony Cingrani Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by AtomicDumpling View Post
    Fans' expectations for Cingrani have reached the stratosphere now. What happens when he has a couple bad starts?
    In all honesty, there's a good chance that in 3 years, he'll be Leaked.. people will be demanding Cingrani be replaced by whoever the best pitcher in AAA is .. or suggest he be traded..
    Thank you Walt and Bob for going for it in 2010-2014!

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    Re: Tony Cingrani Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by REDREAD View Post
    In all honesty, there's a good chance that in 3 years, he'll be Leaked.. people will be demanding Cingrani be replaced by whoever the best pitcher in AAA is .. or suggest he be traded..
    I don't think it's a bad thing when fans expect the best 5 starting pitchers to be the 5 starting pitchers. Leake, right now, is not one of the Reds top 5 starting pitchers and he probably hasn't been the last 2 years. I don't dislike Leake, but unfortunately on this staff, when healthy, he's #6 at best. I don't know that he should be traded as depth is a good thing, but things have changed since he first came to Cincy and that's a good thing.

    Bum

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