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Thread: Tony Cingrani Thread

  1. #271
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    Re: Tony Cingrani Thread

    Paging Wally Pipp....
    There are only two seasons - Winter and Baseball.

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  3. #272
    Member mdccclxix's Avatar
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    Re: Cingrani on pace to be the next Cole Hamels?

    I'd like to add Baumgardner to this list of pre-accomplishments.

  4. #273
    All work and no play..... Vottomatic's Avatar
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    Re: Cingrani on pace to be the next Cole Hamels?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blitz Dorsey View Post
    "Cingrani is nothing more than a future reliever, didn't you guys hear?"

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    2012
    Who are you quoting?
    "I can't take this homerism anymore." - 10xWSChamps, August 11, 2010. A Cardinals fan having a problem with all the homerism on Redszone. Classic.

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  5. #274
    All work and no play..... Vottomatic's Avatar
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    Re: Tony Cingrani Thread

    I'm starting to feel a bit sorry for Mike Leake.

    He's on a team that has Cueto, Latos, Bailey and Cingrani. That would suck trying to live up to those guys.
    "I can't take this homerism anymore." - 10xWSChamps, August 11, 2010. A Cardinals fan having a problem with all the homerism on Redszone. Classic.

    "Man do I miss the days where were didn't need a calculator and an encyclopedia of baseball metrics to enjoy a baseball game ... - MikeS21" - 8/2/12 game thread

  6. #275
    Et tu, Brutus? Brutus's Avatar
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    Re: Cingrani for Cy Young/Rookie of the Year?

    Quote Originally Posted by Caveat Emperor View Post
    Leake's been demonstrably mediocre for over a year now.
    Leake's SIERA the past 35 starts is just barely over 4.00. The Major League average ERA in that same time is 4.15.

    You've been constantly belaboring this Leake thing to the point where it's no longer being discussed consistently with reality.
    "No matter how good you are, you're going to lose one-third of your games. No matter how bad you are you're going to win one-third of your games. It's the other third that makes the difference." ~Tommy Lasorda

  7. #276
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    Re: Cingrani for Cy Young/Rookie of the Year?

    Quote Originally Posted by Brutus View Post
    Leake's SIERA the past 35 starts is just barely over 4.00. The Major League average ERA in that same time is 4.15.

    You've been constantly belaboring this Leake thing to the point where it's no longer being discussed consistently with reality.
    So, assuming that is the case, do you think Leake should remain in the rotation even if he's the 6th best starter on the team? I mean, say we take away the "mediocre" comment and agree that he is a solid 4th starter on most teams, why should the Reds keep their 6th best starter in the rotation when he can help them elsewhere and the Reds can have better starting pitching? This is professional baseball after all and I always thought the best players should be the one's playing regardless of their experience level.

    Bum

  8. #277
    Titanic Struggles Caveat Emperor's Avatar
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    Re: Cingrani for Cy Young/Rookie of the Year?

    Quote Originally Posted by Brutus View Post
    Leake's SIERA the past 35 starts is just barely over 4.00. The Major League average ERA in that same time is 4.15.

    You've been constantly belaboring this Leake thing to the point where it's no longer being discussed consistently with reality.
    me∑di∑o∑cre
    /ˌmēdēˈōkər/
    Adjective
    Of only moderate quality; not very good: "a mediocre actor".
    Synonyms
    middling - moderate - indifferent - ordinary - mean

    Middling, Ordinary, Moderate would seem to be fairly accurate description of Mike Leake based on even your own post.
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  9. #278
    No half measures, Walter RedEye's Avatar
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    Re: Tony Cingrani Thread

    Whether or not Mike Leake qualifies as "mediocre" would seem to be a different argument than whether or not he should be one of the Reds starters. Right?
    "Iíll kind of have a foot on the back of my own butt. Thatís just how I do things.Ē -- Bryan Price, 10/22/2013

  10. #279
    I'm gettin paper Homer Bailey's Avatar
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    Re: Cingrani on pace to be the next Cole Hamels?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blitz Dorsey View Post
    "Cingrani is nothing more than a future reliever, didn't you guys hear?"

    Signed,

    2012
    Is that what the quote was? Or was it maybe that some people were of the opinion that his stuff projected better for him to be a reliever? Exaggerating well researched positions doesn't help facilitate discussion.

  11. #280
    Member NebraskaRed's Avatar
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    Re: Tony Cingrani Thread

    And a slightly better than average ERA is not "bad". Mediocre is not "bad". Bad is bad. You can argue that he should or shouldn't be a starter, but suggesting that because (so far in his career) his ERA is slightly below average, therefore that makes him unfit to be in someone's starting rotation is a bit silly.

  12. #281
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    Re: Cingrani on pace to be the next Cole Hamels?

    3 starts people and the comps. and projections have already begun....unbelievable!

  13. #282
    Moderator The Operator's Avatar
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    Re: Cingrani on pace to be the next Cole Hamels?

    Please keep the Cingrani discussion to the designated "Tony Cingrani Thread" so as not to clutter the forum with redundant topics. Thanks.
    Quote Originally Posted by BCubb2003 View Post
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  15. #283
    THAT'S A FACT JACK!! GAC's Avatar
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    Re: Tony Cingrani Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by membengal View Post
    Yes, three starts in the majors, GAC. I get that. But this weird "he has to prove it" stuff that people fall back on with regard to kids moving into the majors always feels odd to me, as there is no way to "prove it" without getting a chance to...prove it.

    So how to determine if someone should get that chance? Well, all we have there, really, from our viewpoint (since we don't get to hang with scouts etc.), is what they have done in the minors. And Cingrani's minors track record is exemplary. And what he has done in three starts in the majors is in line with what we saw in the minors. It isn't like this is someone with a career 4.26 FIP in the minors and a middling K:BB ratio throughout his minor league stops and has then turned in a 3-start supernova in the majors out of line with what we have seen before. No, this is pretty much who Cingrani has been as he has moved up.

    So, really, "its just 3 starts" is a nice thing to recite and what not, but it isn't like that "just 3 starts" is divorced from the body of work he has turned in before this...
    I agree with everything you're saying mem. And if he continues to perform well he will get his shot. The problem is once Cueto returns. They aren't going with a 6 man rotation, and someone has to be the odd-man out of that rotation.

    So I don't understand what you think they should do? Just ditch Leake? They aren't, IMO, going to put him in the BP, and they can't ship him to the minors.

    Quote Originally Posted by membengal View Post
    Maybe leake should go down to AAA and prove something for 20 days...
    From what I understand, and because he has 3 years service time, he can't be removed from the 40 man roster without his permission. He can be released or "designated for assignment" where he is then open to the waiver wire where another team can claim him; but this FO is not going to do so easily discard the arm. He's our #5, hasn't been a total disaster at 1-1 w/ an ERA of 4.34. But if he continues to "struggle" as the season progresses they may very well have to make a decision AT SOME POINT. And that could open the door further for Cingrani.
    "panic" only comes from having real expectations

  16. #284
    The Big Dog mth123's Avatar
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    Re: Tony Cingrani Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by GAC View Post
    From what I understand, and because he has 3 years service time, he can't be removed from the 40 man roster without his permission. He can be released or "designated for assignment" where he is then open to the waiver wire where another team can claim him; but this FO is not going to do so easily discard the arm. He's our #5, hasn't been a total disaster at 1-1 w/ an ERA of 4.34. But if he continues to "struggle" as the season progresses they may very well have to make a decision AT SOME POINT. And that could open the door further for Cingrani.
    Close. There is what is called a "veterans consent" rule. Because Leake first appeared on a major league roster more than 3 years ago, he can't be optioned to the minors without his permission. Even though Leake has options remaining, because of the time involved since he first came to the majors, he can only be sent to the minors if he agrees. If he doesn't agree and the Reds want to send him down, he would need to be offered to every other team for the waiver price. If another team would want him, the Reds would either need to choose to keep him on the major league roster or give him to the team that claimed him so that he could keep his major league job. If no one else wants him on the major league roster, the Reds could send him down. Fat chance of that happening. I'd guess 29 other teams would put a claim in on Leake.

    The Reds were able to option Logan Ondrusek before the season started, and I may be mistaken, but I think he's now in the same boat. He first appeared in the big leagues on April 5, 2010. Maybe some one can verify that.


    Once all of the options have been used up on a player, a player is considered "out of options" and a player must be placed on and clear waivers prior to being sent down to the minor leagues (there is also the "veterans' consent" rule; see below). Additionally, three years after the date of a playerís first appearance on a major-league roster, he must clear optional waivers (which are revocable) to be optioned even if he has options remaining.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Major_L...l_transactions
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

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  17. #285
    The Big Dog mth123's Avatar
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    Re: Tony Cingrani Thread

    I may have missed one, but the only guys, I think, on the pitching staff that the Reds can option to the minors at will - without waivers being involved - are Tony Cingrani, Sam Lecure and JJ Hoover. Lecure will need to give his permisson by the end of May.
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

    Having better players makes "the right time" or "the big hit" happen a lot more often. PLUS PLUS


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