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Thread: Tony Cingrani Thread

  1. #31
    Moderator The Operator's Avatar
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    Re: Tony Cingrani Thread

    He's certainly proving wrong some of the people who bemoaned the idea of Chapman going to the rotation because "A pitcher can't possibly be successful as a starter only throwing a fastball 75% of the time."

    Maybe we should make Cingrani the closer. Oh, we already have a closer?

    Then make him the DOUBLE SECRET closer!!!
    Quote Originally Posted by BCubb2003 View Post
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  4. #32
    Member Homer Bailey's Avatar
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    Re: Tony Cingrani Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by The Operator View Post
    He's certainly proving wrong some of the people who bemoaned the idea of Chapman going to the rotation because "A pitcher can't possibly be successful as a starter only throwing a fastball 75% of the time."

    Maybe we should make Cingrani the closer. Oh, we already have a closer?

    Then make him the DOUBLE SECRET closer!!!
    Let's not get carried away. Two games doesn't "prove" anything. Nevermind the fact that his two starts were against the Marlins and the Cubs. Whether he can continue to get by with suspect secondary pitches is still very much a valid question.

    That being said, his fastball looks to obviously be a plus pitch.

  5. #33
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    Re: Tony Cingrani Thread

    I've come to the conclusion that Cingrani has mastered some magical way of making the ball disappear from his hand to the catcher's glove. That's his success.

  6. #34
    Bullpen or whatever RedEye's Avatar
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    Are guys often able to develop major league caliber pitches while they are facing major league hitters? At this point, it seems like Cingrani has at least a plus fastball, but I wonder what he would do if his mechanics got screwed up. Seems like losing just a little of his deceptiveness could cause a steep decline in production. Curious what others think.
    “Every level he goes to, he is going to compete. They will know who he is at every level he goes to.” -- ED on EDLC

  7. #35
    Sprinkles are for winners dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Tony Cingrani Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by RedEye View Post
    Are guys often able to develop major league caliber pitches while they are facing major league hitters? At this point, it seems like Cingrani has at least a plus fastball, but I wonder what he would do if his mechanics got screwed up. Seems like losing just a little of his deceptiveness could cause a steep decline in production. Curious what others think.
    Homer Bailey developed a split finger and slider at the Major League level.

  8. #36
    Bullpen or whatever RedEye's Avatar
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    Re: Tony Cingrani Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    Homer Bailey developed a split finger and slider at the Major League level.
    Well, that answers my question. How many other pitches did Homer have to work with before that? Three?
    “Every level he goes to, he is going to compete. They will know who he is at every level he goes to.” -- ED on EDLC

  9. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by REDREAD View Post
    When Cueto comes back, I send Cingrani down to AAA regardless of the results.
    Let him keep working on his secondary pitches down there.
    In AAA, he should be throwing the percentage of fastballs/mix of pitches that they want him to throw in the majors. Period. Even if that damages his AAA stats.


    I've been a big fan of Cingrani, but he's exceeded my expectations so far.
    I still think he can benefit from finishing the year in AAA.
    The Reds will also benefit. The season is still young. Having Cingrani stashed in AAA as a 6th starter (or late season addition to the bullpen) is an incredible weapon/insurance policy.
    Agree 110%.

    The best use for this season is keep him working regularly, and to NOT disrupt the other starters on our roster. We had a fluke of a season last year with no starters missing time, that obviously won't happen this year, we aren't trading/moving starting pitchers this year...

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  10. #38
    Member RedsManRick's Avatar
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    Re: Tony Cingrani Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by MWM View Post
    Even on TV his fastball is deceiving. I watched the first time last night and it looks like he's throwing serious gas just to have it come up at 89-90 on the radar. I'm sure it's a function of his slow windup and smooth delivery but if you just looked at him without looking at the ball you'd think he was just loosening up.

    To be able to throw it even 90 with that kind of motion/effort....or whatever you want to call it.... may have the same effect on a hitter of one several mph faster. I don't know how sustainable it is, but watching hitters react is similar to how some react to Chapman's pitches. They seemed to be swinging at a lot of bad pitches, and looking really bad in the process. It's like they just can't pick up on the ball. It's really interesting. I can't think of many pitchers that would fool even someone watching on TV.
    What stood out to me is how the ball jumped out of his hand. Maybe it's because of the way he cups his wrist early, but it just seems hard to pick up the ball from him.
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

  11. #39
    Member Tom Servo's Avatar
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    Re: Tony Cingrani Thread

    some Tony Cingrani pics for the Tony Cingrani thread










    “I don’t care,” Votto said of passing his friend and former teammate. “He’s in the past. Bye-bye, Jay.”

  12. #40
    Bullpen or whatever RedEye's Avatar
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    Re: Tony Cingrani Thread

    If this guy pans out to be the pitcher statistically that he looks like right now, this will be a HUGE feather in the scouting department's cap. Heck, it already is. Correct me if I'm wrong, but deceptiveness of delivery is NOT currently something that stats can pick up... and that seems to be one of the biggest explanations for his success thus far.
    “Every level he goes to, he is going to compete. They will know who he is at every level he goes to.” -- ED on EDLC

  13. #41
    Sprinkles are for winners dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Tony Cingrani Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by RedEye View Post
    If this guy pans out to be the pitcher statistically that he looks like right now, this will be a HUGE feather in the scouting department's cap. Heck, it already is. Correct me if I'm wrong, but deceptiveness of delivery is NOT currently something that stats can pick up... and that seems to be one of the biggest explanations for his success thus far.
    Being a lefty that can throw 89-95 probably has to be the biggest reasoning.

  14. #42
    Bullpen or whatever RedEye's Avatar
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    Re: Tony Cingrani Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    Being a lefty that can throw 89-95 probably has to be the biggest reasoning.
    Right, that helps. But does just throwing 89-95 from the left hand side get you where he is? Seems like no to me. And if he doesn't have good secondary pitches, wouldn't that delivery be the x factor?
    “Every level he goes to, he is going to compete. They will know who he is at every level he goes to.” -- ED on EDLC

  15. #43
    Moderator The Operator's Avatar
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    Re: Tony Cingrani Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Homer Bailey View Post
    Let's not get carried away. Two games doesn't "prove" anything. Nevermind the fact that his two starts were against the Marlins and the Cubs. Whether he can continue to get by with suspect secondary pitches is still very much a valid question.

    That being said, his fastball looks to obviously be a plus pitch.
    You're right, it hasn't yet poven anything - I actually meant to word it differently but was in a hurry to leave the house when I made the post.

    And I agree it still remains to be seen if he can continue to pitch so effectively, but some folks (I'm not calling you out, I can't even remember which side of that debate you were on) acted as if Chapman would never make it through the 4th inning of his first start only having 2 pitches.

    That, and I never miss an opportunity to quote Animal House.
    Quote Originally Posted by BCubb2003 View Post
    Don't worry. I'd say the game threads are about league average.
    Phil Castellini puts the FUN in Trust Fund.

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  17. #44
    always ask questions bigredmechanism's Avatar
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    Re: Tony Cingrani Thread

    I have a two-part question that hopefully someone can answer for me.

    What makes a lefty throwing in the low-mid 90s so much more effective than a righty throwing the same velo, and why does it seem that lefties typically don't throw as hard as righties? Obviously there are exceptions to this, but it generally seems they throw softer.
    Award Winning Baseball Player

  18. #45
    Member kaldaniels's Avatar
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    Re: Tony Cingrani Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by bigredmechanism View Post
    I have a two-part question that hopefully someone can answer for me.

    What makes a lefty throwing in the low-mid 90s so much more effective than a righty throwing the same velo, and why does it seem that lefties typically don't throw as hard as righties? Obviously there are exceptions to this, but it generally seems they throw softer.
    For the second question I would wager that the same percentage (very tiny) of LH and RH on the planet can throw 95+ (pick any number in the 90's). You pretty much cannot "convert to being a lefty" like batters can so the pool from which LH fireballers come from is much, much, smaller.


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