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Thread: 2013 NBA Playoffs

  1. #61
    All Fired Up Revering4Blue's Avatar
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    Re: 2013 NBA Playoffs

    Quote Originally Posted by texasdave View Post
    How Dwyane Wade avoided suspension is a mystery.
    Easy.

    He's a Superstar player for what, right now, represents the NBA's Cash Cow.

    Frankly, though, if the Pacers are fortunate to pull this series out, I'd rather that the Pacers win every game against an intact Miami team. Less the Heat band-wagoners - the type who rooted for the Bulls in the 90's / Lakers in the aughts then promptly jumped ship - whine about placing an asterisk in front of a Pacer win against a Wade less Heat team.

    The Heat are an awesome, deep team, but it's kind of funny how all of a sudden they have so many fans with no ties to South Florida.
    "I have just been more than a little suspect of all the trades since the Willy (Scott Williamson) cash grab. That one left such a bad taste in my mouth that even a 1985 Dom Pťrignon couldn't cleanse it." -- Creek14

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  3. #62
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    Re: 2013 NBA Playoffs

    Quote Originally Posted by Revering4Blue View Post
    Easy.

    He's a Superstar player for what, right now, represents the NBA's Cash Cow.

    Frankly, though, if the Pacers are fortunate to pull this series out, I'd rather that the Pacers win every game against an intact Miami team. Less the Heat band-wagoners - the type who rooted for the Bulls in the 90's / Lakers in the aughts then promptly jumped ship - whine about placing an asterisk in front of a Pacer win against a Wade less Heat team.

    The Heat are an awesome, deep team, but it's kind of funny how all of a sudden they have so many fans with no ties to South Florida.
    People like winners, Heat have won more than most the last couple years. Its no different than "America's Team" in NFL in the 90s, or 90% of Patriot fans in general. Its like a moth being drawn to the light until that light burns out and the gnats move on to the next light.

    I haven't followed the NBA since Kwame Brown was the #1 pick and the entire eastern division changed coaches in a year. Because it seemed like NBA teams were stuck on stupid and drafting on "potential" but not giving the coaches the time to fulfill that potential or being overrated hacks to begin with. For every LeBron or Kobe you had 5 Kwame Browns and it damaged the quality of the league.
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  4. #63
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    Re: 2013 NBA Playoffs

    Quote Originally Posted by Slyder View Post
    I haven't followed the NBA since Kwame Brown was the #1 pick and the entire eastern division changed coaches in a year. Because it seemed like NBA teams were stuck on stupid and drafting on "potential" but not giving the coaches the time to fulfill that potential or being overrated hacks to begin with. For every LeBron or Kobe you had 5 Kwame Browns and it damaged the quality of the league.
    The problem with the league in that era was the following:
    1) Unlikeable/Not-Exciting superstars: See: Tracy McGrady, Vince, Kidd, Shaq, Webber, Iverson, etc...
    2) The league had reached the apex of oppressive defense. "Hand checking" (also known as fouling) was allowed to go on to a horrific extent. In 1998-1999, teams averaged 91.6 ppg and only the Kings topped 100 ppg. It was atrocious to watch. Eleven teams average 100 ppg this season.
    3) Bad Rules: The NBA has been very proactive recently in improving the game. They eliminated hand checking, allowing guards to dribble. They put in the anti-Barkley 5 second rule (called recently on Wade) to stop entire offensive possessions from being one 20 second back down. They allowed zone, which has made isolation basketball a much more inefficient way to play.

    So, I'm not sure it was bad coaching or bad development, I think it was a perception and rules issue that made the league tough to watch. Now, the league has likeable superstars and has largely cleaned up the game, making it great to watch.
    Last edited by improbus; 05-27-2013 at 09:05 PM.
    Variatio delectat - Cicero

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    Revering4Blue (05-28-2013)

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    Re: 2013 NBA Playoffs

    Gregg Doyel hits the nail on the head about Wade.

    http://www.cbssports.com/general/blo...ys-for-the-win

  7. #65
    Waitin til next year bucksfan2's Avatar
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    Re: 2013 NBA Playoffs

    Quote Originally Posted by NJReds View Post
    The Heat are a great team, no doubt, but one of their players falls on almost every possession. Flop city.
    Its pretty pathetic actually. And its a reason that I can't stomach watching much if any of the NBA playoffs. The superstars have always gotten the calls, but it gets a little difficult to watch when the Heat are constantly complaining to the officials. Every time there is some level of contact the Heat are looking the officials to call it or over zealously flopping.

    Its pretty sad what has happened to D Wade. The guy at one point was one of the most admired player in the NBA. He was tough as nails, would fall down and get back up, immortalized in a Gatorade commercial. But now he has become a clown. A player on the downside of his career who is resorting to all kinds of dirty measures to gain any advantage. The guy who used to stand in there and take hits from the best is falling down if an opponent looks at him.

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    Re: 2013 NBA Playoffs

    Quote Originally Posted by bucksfan2 View Post
    Its pretty pathetic actually. And its a reason that I can't stomach watching much if any of the NBA playoffs. The superstars have always gotten the calls, but it gets a little difficult to watch when the Heat are constantly complaining to the officials. Every time there is some level of contact the Heat are looking the officials to call it or over zealously flopping.

    Its pretty sad what has happened to D Wade. The guy at one point was one of the most admired player in the NBA. He was tough as nails, would fall down and get back up, immortalized in a Gatorade commercial. But now he has become a clown. A player on the downside of his career who is resorting to all kinds of dirty measures to gain any advantage. The guy who used to stand in there and take hits from the best is falling down if an opponent looks at him.
    My thoughts on flopping is this:

    1. It's nothing new, and I do agree it cheapens the game. Problem is, it's something that you can trace back to college basketball and probably AAU/high school. A coach who has been called the Modern Day John Wooden has utilized the flop all throughout his coaching career and this coach represents the United States in the Olympics every four years. (Coach K for those scoring at home).

    2. The NBA is fining players for flopping, but these are multimillionaires who care only about winning and the glory. Taking it a step further, who should be held responsible, the player who sold the ref on the charge, or the ref who made the horrendous call?

    My answer is both: If you want to fix flopping, start giving refs authority to call a technical foul on players who flop. Start hurting the players in the game as well as fining them for it. But it will never happen.
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    Re: 2013 NBA Playoffs

    Players respond to incentives, not morality. As the game is currently officiated/run, flopping provides your team with a potentially high reward for very little consequences. The same thing happens in football with pass interference, in soccer with penalties, etc.... It is the leagues job to deincentivize that behavior.
    Variatio delectat - Cicero

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    Re: 2013 NBA Playoffs

    Go Spurs.

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    Re: 2013 NBA Playoffs

    Quote Originally Posted by WVRed View Post
    My thoughts on flopping is this:

    1. It's nothing new, and I do agree it cheapens the game. Problem is, it's something that you can trace back to college basketball and probably AAU/high school. A coach who has been called the Modern Day John Wooden has utilized the flop all throughout his coaching career and this coach represents the United States in the Olympics every four years. (Coach K for those scoring at home).

    2. The NBA is fining players for flopping, but these are multimillionaires who care only about winning and the glory. Taking it a step further, who should be held responsible, the player who sold the ref on the charge, or the ref who made the horrendous call?

    My answer is both: If you want to fix flopping, start giving refs authority to call a technical foul on players who flop. Start hurting the players in the game as well as fining them for it. But it will never happen.
    You're right that it's nothing new. I'd even venture a guess that there was flopping before Coach K set up shop in Durham.

    The difference now is that players are so much bigger stronger and faster than the referees, I think referees are having to deal with a lot worse angles on contact, and having to make many more judgement calls on questionable contact.
    When people say that I donít know what Iím talking about when it comes to sports or writing, I think: Man, you should see me in the rest of my life.
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  12. #70
    Waitin til next year bucksfan2's Avatar
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    Re: 2013 NBA Playoffs

    Quote Originally Posted by Hoosier Red View Post
    You're right that it's nothing new. I'd even venture a guess that there was flopping before Coach K set up shop in Durham.

    The difference now is that players are so much bigger stronger and faster than the referees, I think referees are having to deal with a lot worse angles on contact, and having to make many more judgement calls on questionable contact.
    I don't think flopping has ever been to the point where it was now. I do think Coach K has really emphasized it during his tenure at Duke. IMO everyone has tried "trickery" in order to gain an advantage. Years ago players who were taking a charge would start to lean back or fall back before the contact was initiated. They would emphasize it a little bit in order to get the charge call. But the problem in today's NBA is not only are players emphasizing the flop, but they are acting in order to get the foul call. There is a pretty good gif right now with LeBron and West both flopping. LeBron flails like he is being tackled by a middle line backer in the NFL while West tries to sell the foul as well.

    The thing is LeBron is 6'8" and solid as they come. In order for someone to move him as far as he goes they would need to hit him with a truck. An official should be able to notice that and call a flop.

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    Member improbus's Avatar
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    Re: 2013 NBA Playoffs

    Quote Originally Posted by bucksfan2 View Post
    I don't think flopping has ever been to the point where it was now. I do think Coach K has really emphasized it during his tenure at Duke. IMO everyone has tried "trickery" in order to gain an advantage. Years ago players who were taking a charge would start to lean back or fall back before the contact was initiated. They would emphasize it a little bit in order to get the charge call. But the problem in today's NBA is not only are players emphasizing the flop, but they are acting in order to get the foul call. There is a pretty good gif right now with LeBron and West both flopping. LeBron flails like he is being tackled by a middle line backer in the NFL while West tries to sell the foul as well.

    The thing is LeBron is 6'8" and solid as they come. In order for someone to move him as far as he goes they would need to hit him with a truck. An official should be able to notice that and call a flop.
    So, what are the players supposed to do? Throw away something that works to their advantage? It's on the league and refs to deal with it. Or allow fighting. Those are the only two options.
    Variatio delectat - Cicero

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  15. #72
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    Re: 2013 NBA Playoffs

    Quote Originally Posted by improbus View Post
    So, what are the players supposed to do? Throw away something that works to their advantage? It's on the league and refs to deal with it. Or allow fighting. Those are the only two options.
    I agree. Flopping is way down the list of problems I have with Wade. I don't consider flopping dirty, what I consider dirty are plays that have the intention to hurt an opponent and there are plenty of examples of Wade doing this. It doesn't seem like he was always dirty but I may not have been paying close enough attention.

  16. #73
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    Re: 2013 NBA Playoffs

    I'm not the biggest basketball fan, but is there any reason why the league can't start calling flops as fouls? Maybe even technical fouls?
    They don't think it be like it is, but it do.
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    Re: 2013 NBA Playoffs

    The problem with calling flops as fouls is that the ref can't tell in real time that it's a flop. That's why the flopper's doing it.

    In my mind, the only feasible way for a ref to punish a serial flopper is to ignore it. When David West or Dwayne Wade go down like they've been hit by a truck, ignore it. If you let an offensive player get a few legitimate fouls in for every flop you're fooled into whistling, that should put an end to it.

    As much as I don't like a ref making the game be about them, it should be personal to them. The flopper is trying to trick the ref into calling a foul he otherwise wouldn't call.
    "Oh I'm sorry you actually were run over on that last play, I assumed you were acting like you'd been shot just like last game. By the way, because I blew that call I'm not going to work the finals. Thanks jerk."
    When people say that I donít know what Iím talking about when it comes to sports or writing, I think: Man, you should see me in the rest of my life.
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    Re: 2013 NBA Playoffs

    Quote Originally Posted by Hoosier Red View Post
    The problem with calling flops as fouls is that the ref can't tell in real time that it's a flop. That's why the flopper's doing it.

    In my mind, the only feasible way for a ref to punish a serial flopper is to ignore it. When David West or Dwayne Wade go down like they've been hit by a truck, ignore it. If you let an offensive player get a few legitimate fouls in for every flop you're fooled into whistling, that should put an end to it.

    As much as I don't like a ref making the game be about them, it should be personal to them. The flopper is trying to trick the ref into calling a foul he otherwise wouldn't call.
    "Oh I'm sorry you actually were run over on that last play, I assumed you were acting like you'd been shot just like last game. By the way, because I blew that call I'm not going to work the finals. Thanks jerk."
    How about incremental fines? First time, warning. Second time, $50K. Third time, $100K. Fourth time, $250K.

    $5K is a joke, but if you start slapping out 6 digit fines, I'm positive it will stop.


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