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Thread: Trade idea for LF

  1. #46
    Five Tool Fool jojo's Avatar
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    Re: Trade idea for LF

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    Denorfia is not a building block. He's a $2 million per year competent outfielder who can help cover the position for now.

    The Padres, if you look, have nine players earning more than Deno, some much more. If they want to dump salary, I'd think they would start with the $5,7, and 9 million contracts they have.

    Now - they would gladly trade Deno if they get back a good prospect for the future. But the thesis of some is that the Reds can get him for C level minor leaguers and a bucket of baseballs. I doubt it.

    Seems to me Deno is the kind of guys a rebuilding team keeps to provide some veteran leadership on the club. There are more big ticket guys they could dump.
    He's cheap, can play multiple positions well and is a legitimate major league bat. That's a useful player for a team in flux and sounds like a guy that is more valuable to the Padres than the reds if one also argues Denorfia can't really bring a lot in trade.
    "This isnít stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

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  3. #47
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    Re: Trade idea for LF

    Quote Originally Posted by jojo View Post
    He's cheap, can play multiple positions well and is a legitimate major league bat. That's a useful player for a team in flux and sounds like a guy that is more valuable to the Padres than the reds if one also argues Denorfia can't really bring a lot in trade.
    How is that valuable for a team that is guaranteed to finish in last place this year?

    He doesn't sell tickets.
    He doesn't help them win a division.
    He doesn't help them rebuild for the future.
    He doesn't even help them win games. At best he doesn't help them lose games.

    He has zero value to a team like the Padres.

    Exactly what value to do you see him bring?
    "Man, the pitch looks fast, even in slow motion." Thom Brennaman on Chapman's fastball.

  4. #48
    The Big Dog mth123's Avatar
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    Re: Trade idea for LF

    Quote Originally Posted by 757690 View Post
    How is that valuable for a team that is guaranteed to finish in last place this year?

    He doesn't sell tickets.
    He doesn't help them win a division.
    He doesn't help them rebuild for the future.
    He doesn't even help them win games. At best he doesn't help them lose games.

    He has zero value to a team like the Padres.

    Exactly what value to do you see him bring?
    Guys like Denorfia separate the Padres from the Astros. Lots of value in that.
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

    Having better players makes "the right time" or "the big hit" happen a lot more often. PLUS PLUS

  5. #49
    Five Tool Fool jojo's Avatar
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    Re: Trade idea for LF

    Quote Originally Posted by 757690 View Post
    How is that valuable for a team that is guaranteed to finish in last place this year?

    He doesn't sell tickets.
    He doesn't help them win a division.
    He doesn't help them rebuild for the future.
    He doesn't even help them win games. At best he doesn't help them lose games.

    He has zero value to a team like the Padres.

    Exactly what value to do you see him bring?
    He is an actual major league quality position player. That has substantial value. I find it weird that you don't see how that has value.
    "This isnít stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

  6. #50
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    Re: Trade idea for LF

    Quote Originally Posted by mth123 View Post
    Guys like Denorfia separate the Padres from the Astros. Lots of value in that.
    Padres are 1/2 a game better than the Astros at this point.
    "Man, the pitch looks fast, even in slow motion." Thom Brennaman on Chapman's fastball.

  7. #51
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    Re: Trade idea for LF

    Quote Originally Posted by jojo View Post
    He is an actual major league quality position player. That has substantial value. I find it weird that you don't see how that has value.
    That has zero value for a team that is battling the Astros and Marlins for the worst team in baseball.

    His trade value is determined by two factors:

    1. How does he help the team he is currently on?
    2. What are other teams willing to offer for him?

    When 2 is greater than 1, you trade the player.

    I think it's clear that 2 is greater than 1 for the Padres here if the Reds offered a minor league bullpen arm or an equal prospect.
    "Man, the pitch looks fast, even in slow motion." Thom Brennaman on Chapman's fastball.

  8. #52
    Five Tool Fool jojo's Avatar
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    Re: Trade idea for LF

    Quote Originally Posted by 757690 View Post
    That has zero value for a team that is battling the Astros and Marlins for the worst team in baseball.

    His trade value is determined by two factors:

    1. How does he help the team he is currently on?
    2. What are other teams willing to offer for him?

    When 2 is greater than 1, you trade the player.

    I think it's clear that 2 is greater than 1 for the Padres here if the Reds offered a minor league bullpen arm or an equal prospect.
    Sorry, you're completely missing the point. He helps the team by being an actual legitimate player that is cheap and capable of playing multiple positions.

    Since you have repeatedly argued that he has no trade value, the absolute last thing the padres should do is trade him, cough, give him away. And trading a legitimate major league hitter who plays plus defense for a minor league bullpen arm is the last thing that a rebuilding team should do. it makes little sense. But i get why one might argue that math works for the Reds.
    "This isnít stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

  9. #53
    The Big Dog mth123's Avatar
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    Re: Trade idea for LF

    Quote Originally Posted by 757690 View Post
    That has zero value for a team that is battling the Astros and Marlins for the worst team in baseball.

    His trade value is determined by two factors:

    1. How does he help the team he is currently on?
    2. What are other teams willing to offer for him?

    When 2 is greater than 1, you trade the player.

    I think it's clear that 2 is greater than 1 for the Padres here if the Reds offered a minor league bullpen arm or an equal prospect.
    At the deadline, when most of the Padres' home schedule has passed and the fanbase has moved on to next year, the Chargers or something else, the cost of a guy like Denorfia will go down to a middling prospect or two (some one with actual future potential, say Guillon or some one of that ilk, not some career minor leaguer) but there isn't a reason for them to deal him now unless a team would pay more than that. I'm sure if the Reds would put a guy like Corcino on the table, they could get a guy like Deno, but short of overpaying, why wouldn't the Padres just wait?
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

    Having better players makes "the right time" or "the big hit" happen a lot more often. PLUS PLUS

  10. #54
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    Re: Trade idea for LF

    Quote Originally Posted by jojo View Post
    Sorry, you're completely missing the point. He helps the team by being an actual legitimate player that is cheap and capable of playing multiple positions.

    Since you have repeatedly argued that he has no trade value, the absolute last thing the padres should do is trade him, cough, give him away. And trading a legitimate major league hitter who plays plus defense for a minor league bullpen arm is the last thing that a rebuilding team should do. it makes little sense. But i get why one might argue that math works for the Reds.
    You are just repeating yourself without adding any additional information or analysis.

    I have argued that a 32 year old player, no matter how good, has zero value on a team like the Padres. So the answer to #1 is that he has Zero value to his current team. You need to explain to me how he has any real value to the Padres playing for them right now.

    He can still have value based on what other teams are willing to offer for him. I don't see any other team offering anything for him. So if the Reds offered something of value to the Padres, no matter how small, it would be wise for the Padres to take in return for Denorfia.

    Let's put it another way.

    If Michael Young played for the Padres, he would have zero value to them, for the same reasons why Denorfia has zero value for them, even though he is much better and more valuable player than Denorfia. He doesn't sell tickets. He doesn't help them win a division. He doesn't help them rebuild for the future.

    However, the answer to the second question is different for Young than it is for Denorfia. Quite a few teams would be willing to offer something substantial for him, so in order to convince the Padres (hypothetically) to trade him him to the Reds, the Reds would have to beat all other offers. It would take a significant prospect or collection of prospects to get him.
    "Man, the pitch looks fast, even in slow motion." Thom Brennaman on Chapman's fastball.

  11. #55
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    Re: Trade idea for LF

    Quote Originally Posted by mth123 View Post
    At the deadline, when most of the Padres' home schedule has passed and the fanbase has moved on to next year, the Chargers or something else, the cost of a guy like Denorfia will go down to a middling prospect or two (some one with actual future potential, say Guillon or some one of that ilk, not some career minor leaguer) but there isn't a reason for them to deal him now unless a team would pay more than that. I'm sure if the Reds would put a guy like Corcino on the table, they could get a guy like Deno, but short of overpaying, why wouldn't the Padres just wait?
    Do you really think the Padres would lose a single fan if they traded Denorfia now instead of later? He's Chris Denorfia. I bet most Padres fans have no idea he's even on the team, and the ones that do, don't care.
    "Man, the pitch looks fast, even in slow motion." Thom Brennaman on Chapman's fastball.

  12. #56
    The Big Dog mth123's Avatar
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    Re: Trade idea for LF

    Quote Originally Posted by 757690 View Post
    Do you really think the Padres would lose a single fan if they traded Denorfia now instead of later? He's Chris Denorfia. I bet most Padres fans have no idea he's even on the team, and the ones that do, don't care.
    I'm pretty sure if the Padres line-up started running late 20's career minor leaguers out there in place of bonafide big leaguers, the fanbase who have already paid for tickets would notice.

    The point is, if all the pads could get is some suspect minor leaguer with no hint of ptential, why would they trade him now? Why not wait? See if some team suffers injuries and is willing to pay more. The only reason for them to move him now is if some team pays more now than they could get later.
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

    Having better players makes "the right time" or "the big hit" happen a lot more often. PLUS PLUS

  13. #57
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    Re: Trade idea for LF

    Quote Originally Posted by mth123 View Post
    I'm pretty sure if the Padres line-up started running late 20's career minor leaguers out there in place of bonafide big leaguers, the fanbase who have already paid for tickets would notice.

    The point is, if all the pads could get is some suspect minor leaguer with no hint of ptential, why would they trade him now? Why not wait? See if some team suffers injuries and is willing to pay more. The only reason for them to move him now is if some team pays more now than they could get later.
    If the Padres traded Denorfia, he would be replaced by Cameron Maybin. I don't think anyone would notice, nor care.

    The Reds did suffer a big injury and should be willing to pay about what Denorfia would get at the trade deadline right now. No team is going to ever offer more than some C level prospects for Denorfia. He's Chris Denorfia.
    "Man, the pitch looks fast, even in slow motion." Thom Brennaman on Chapman's fastball.

  14. #58
    Five Tool Fool jojo's Avatar
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    Re: Trade idea for LF

    Quote Originally Posted by 757690 View Post
    You are just repeating yourself without adding any additional information or analysis.

    I have argued that a 32 year old player, no matter how good, has zero value on a team like the Padres.
    And your assertion is wrong, repeatedly.

    Quote Originally Posted by 757690 View Post
    So the answer to #1 is that he has Zero value to his current team.
    And again, this is wrong.

    Quote Originally Posted by 757690 View Post
    You need to explain to me how he has any real value to the Padres playing for them right now.
    The padres are a major league baseball team. Denorfia is a legitimate major league caliber position player. He also gives them a good deal of roster flexibility due to his versatility.

    Quote Originally Posted by 757690 View Post
    He can still have value based on what other teams are willing to offer for him. I don't see any other team offering anything for him. So if the Reds offered something of value to the Padres, no matter how small, it would be wise for the Padres to take in return for Denorfia.
    Again, this is a wrong conclusion.

    Quote Originally Posted by 757690 View Post
    Let's put it another way.If Michael Young played for the Padres, he would have zero value to them, for the same reasons why Denorfia has zero value for them, even though he is much better and more valuable player than Denorfia. He doesn't sell tickets. He doesn't help them win a division. He doesn't help them rebuild for the future.
    You can repeat yourself however way you want but it's still repeating yourself without adding any additional analysis or information.

    Quote Originally Posted by 757690 View Post
    However, the answer to the second question is different for Young than it is for Denorfia. Quite a few teams would be willing to offer something substantial for him, so in order to convince the Padres (hypothetically) to trade him him to the Reds, the Reds would have to beat all other offers. It would take a significant prospect or collection of prospects to get him.
    Your argument is that the Padres should be willing to make themselves worse just 'cuz. It's a weird argument.
    "This isnít stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

  15. #59
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    Re: Trade idea for LF

    Quote Originally Posted by jojo View Post
    And your assertion is wrong, repeatedly.



    And again, this is wrong.



    The padres are a major league baseball team. Denorfia is a legitimate major league caliber position player. He also gives them a good deal of roster flexibility due to his versatility.



    Again, this is a wrong conclusion.



    You can repeat yourself however way you want but it's still repeating yourself without adding any additional analysis or information.



    Your argument is that the Padres should be willing to make themselves worse just 'cuz. It's a weird argument.
    You still haven't explained why I'm wrong, so I'll try to explain it another way.

    I agree with Billy Beane. Either you're contending or you're rebuilding. It makes no sense to be anything inbetween. The Padres clearly should've rebuilding. Keeping Denorfia would be continuing to be inbetween.

    And I'm not saying the Padres should be willing to make themselves worse just because. They should take a commodity that currently has zero value to them and turn it into one that does.
    "Man, the pitch looks fast, even in slow motion." Thom Brennaman on Chapman's fastball.

  16. #60
    Member Wonderful Monds's Avatar
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    Re: Trade idea for LF

    Since when do teams trade quality players for no reason?
    They don't think it be like it is, but it do.
    Quote Originally Posted by Larry Schuler View Post
    He has also taught me that even when the Reds win it is important to focus on the fact that they could have lost.


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