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Thread: OF trade idea

  1. #16
    Moderator RedlegJake's Avatar
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    Re: OF trade idea

    I will say this OS....Fowler would make me think long and hard about it...he is one of the few reasonable targets that would.

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  3. #17
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    Re: OF trade idea

    Quote Originally Posted by RedlegJake View Post
    I will say this OS....Fowler would make me think long and hard about it...he is one of the few reasonable targets that would.
    He'd bring a ton to this team now as a viable two hole hitter and superior defender in center as well as adding speed. He'd also bring a ton to this team over the off season and next year. He'd make resigning choo less of a priority and that money could be used in the rotation to extend a guy or to replace cueto who would be traded. Plus he'd act as an insurance policy if Bham is still not ready at that point too. If he is slide fowler to left use ludwick as right handed bench power or platoon with Hamilton for one of the fastest outfiekds in recent memory. (fowler to center on those days).

  4. #18
    All work and no play..... Vottomatic's Avatar
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    Re: OF trade idea

    Usually, I don't like the idea of trading starting pitching depth. But Walt has done a pretty good job of increasing the depth in that area.

    With the emergence of Cingrani, and the solid showing from Galarraga at Louisville.........and you could even jump to double AA and see Sharky Rogers sub-2.00 e.r.a........and even minor league journeyman Greg Reynolds and Villareal are having okay years at triple A.

    And in an emergency, Hoover spent most of his minor league career in the Braves organization as a starter. LeCure could pinch-start if needed.

    I'm less worried that trading Leake would hurt this team.

    I'm also not so sure Hamilton arrives in the majors PERMANENTLY, if ever, before 2015.

    I'm not sure what it would take to get Fowler, but I'd definitely inquire.
    "I can't take this homerism anymore." - 10xWSChamps, August 11, 2010. A Cardinals fan having a problem with all the homerism on Redszone. Classic.

    "Man do I miss the days where were didn't need a calculator and an encyclopedia of baseball metrics to enjoy a baseball game ... - MikeS21" - 8/2/12 game thread

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    RedlegJake (04-30-2013)

  6. #19
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    Re: OF trade idea

    In my baseball dream world I'd like to think that Frazier leake and a Cisco/Romano level prospect could land fowler but the Rockies always want top price for their players. At that point the reds could go with an Hrod hannahan platoon at third or maybe go after a Polanco or Michael You g if he's not too expensive.
    Last edited by Old school 1983; 04-30-2013 at 05:12 PM.

  7. #20
    All work and no play..... Vottomatic's Avatar
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    Re: OF trade idea

    Reds won't trade Frazier. He is a clubhouse favorite by everyone in that clubhouse. One of the most liked and enjoyable guys on the team. The other players would be beyond upset if they traded Todd.
    "I can't take this homerism anymore." - 10xWSChamps, August 11, 2010. A Cardinals fan having a problem with all the homerism on Redszone. Classic.

    "Man do I miss the days where were didn't need a calculator and an encyclopedia of baseball metrics to enjoy a baseball game ... - MikeS21" - 8/2/12 game thread

  8. #21
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    Re: OF trade idea

    Quote Originally Posted by Vottomatic View Post
    Reds won't trade Frazier. He is a clubhouse favorite by everyone in that clubhouse. One of the most liked and enjoyable guys on the team. The other players would be beyond upset if they traded Todd.
    Sometimes you gotta get over it to make the team better. And I know he's a delightful guy and I love his personality but if his average hovers in the .240 range with average defense idk if he'd be worth all that much as a starter on the team unless he's hitting 45 homers and driving in 100. This isn't a knock on you you're a great contributer here but on reds fans in general. We tend to fall in love with guys and make them out to be more than they really are in our heads when it's time to let go to make the team better. Casey, freel, Dunn (more of a love hate thing), Larkin in his later years, and more recently the Hanigan/mes argument. I think the pitching of late kinda proves that while he had an impact, it wasn't some huge mystical thing we thought it was.

    If Frazier hovers around .240 and isn't hugely productive and offers average D at best, I think the personality loss would be offset with talent if a guy like fowler was the return.
    Last edited by Old school 1983; 04-30-2013 at 06:02 PM.

  9. #22
    All work and no play..... Vottomatic's Avatar
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    Re: OF trade idea

    Quote Originally Posted by Old school 1983 View Post
    Sometimes you gotta get over it to make the team better. And I know he's a delightful guy and I love his personality but if his average hovers in the .240 range with average defense idk if he'd be worth all that much as a starter on the team unless he's hitting 45 homers and driving in 100. This isn't a knock on you you're a great contributer here but on reds fans in general. We tend to fall in love with guys and make them out to be more than they really are in our heads when it's time to let go to make the team better. Casey, freel, Dunn (more of a love hate thing), Larkin in his later years, and more recently the Hanigan/mes argument. I think the pitching of late kinda proves that while he had an impact, it wasn't some huge mystical thing we thought it was.

    If Frazier hovers around .240 and isn't hugely productive and offers average D at best, I think the personality loss would be offset with talent if a guy like fowler was the return.
    ......and if Frazier bats .240, "isn't hugely productive and offers average D at best", why do you think the Rockies would want him?
    "I can't take this homerism anymore." - 10xWSChamps, August 11, 2010. A Cardinals fan having a problem with all the homerism on Redszone. Classic.

    "Man do I miss the days where were didn't need a calculator and an encyclopedia of baseball metrics to enjoy a baseball game ... - MikeS21" - 8/2/12 game thread

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    RedlegJake (04-30-2013)

  11. #23
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    Re: OF trade idea

    Quote Originally Posted by Vottomatic View Post
    ......and if Frazier bats .240, "isn't hugely productive and offers average D at best", why do you think the Rockies would want him?
    Whyd the indians want stubbs? The other stuff they'd be getting too. i digress but frazier....Because he brings plus power and has intangibles. Plus with Helton aging they could put him at first where his D wouldn't be as big of an issue. I like him. He's a productive player. I just see him out of the reds starters as a guy that'd have the most value in a trade without being a detrimental loss to the team if the right player is had in return. I'd not just dump him. The reds would have to get an impact player like fowler Headley or Stanton in return for me to move Frazier. And like I said if I had to give up Frazier or Bruce I'd kiss Todd goodbye. Same if the Rockies said cueto for fowler or Todd leake and prospects for fowler I'd take that every time if the prospects were like a Romano Cisco level.

  12. #24
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    Re: OF trade idea

    And if you try to catch me contradicting myself with saying he's not productive in one aspect but is in another, let me clarify. In the reds lineup he's one of two similar feast or famine type of power guys (he and Bruce). They are similar in the fact that while they can mash one they strike out a lot back to back and kill rally's. that's not productive to the lineup even if it looks that way numberwise overall. Whereas if he were in Colorado they could go cargo tulo and Frazier in some order and not have a huge issue like we have. I think two feast or famine guys especially in a row is not productive in a lineup.
    Last edited by Old school 1983; 04-30-2013 at 07:05 PM.

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    Re: OF trade idea

    Quote Originally Posted by Vottomatic View Post
    Reds won't trade Frazier. He is a clubhouse favorite by everyone in that clubhouse. One of the most liked and enjoyable guys on the team. The other players would be beyond upset if they traded Todd.
    Its not like the Reds have a fractured clubhouse. And its baseball. I'm not sure how important "clubhouse guy" will/should factor into trades.

  14. #26
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    Re: OF trade idea

    Quote Originally Posted by TitosLoveChild View Post
    Its not like the Reds have a fractured clubhouse. And its baseball. I'm not sure how important "clubhouse guy" will/should factor into trades.
    Unless he's like a 1999 Greg Vaughn on the reds then not much. But then again Vaughn was a beast and an integral part of the team on the field.

    I'd love to get a guy like fowler but a guy that I think could do even more for the team is Headley. Anyone think the padres would consider cueto or bailey in a trade for him?

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    Re: OF trade idea

    Would you deal Leake + Hamilton for him? Would they?

  16. #28
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    Re: OF trade idea

    Quote Originally Posted by tsdavis11 View Post
    Would you deal Leake + Hamilton for him? Would they?
    I don't think they would. I think they'd want higher quality pitching than that. I don't think I would either. Hamilton isn't just another fast guy. He's once in a lifetime fast. A player like that needs to try to be developed in our system. A loss of a cueto or bailey could be replaceable. The loss of speed like his simply could t be. For me to get rid of him I'd have to be overwhelmed. The angels would more or less have to offer the reds trout or the nats Harper.

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    Re: OF trade idea

    Leake is considered a spare part by many around here, but what happens if they move him, and Cingrani falls off the map? Or there's another injury? Isn't the comfort of having extra ML-ready pitching better than taking a chance on a LF some team is willing to move at this point.

    I would not give up any ML pitching for ML offense at this point in the season, seems to me that type of trade should've taken place in the off-season where you have a chance to address any issues you have with the pitching staff instead of being forced to continue with what you have in place. I know it looks good right now, but you move Leake and another pitcher gets hurt, then who?

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