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Thread: Trade time: Bruce and Leake for a cleanup hitter

  1. #46
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    Re: Trade time: Bruce and Leake for a cleanup hitter

    Also, the Reds simply are not getting what they could be getting out of Chapman. This collection of punch-and-Judy hitters needs him as a starter. Having another ace to help keep games close also would help change the chemistry.

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  3. #47
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    Re: Trade time: Bruce and Leake for a cleanup hitter

    Quote Originally Posted by HDBoy View Post
    Remember, the need for the Reds to deal players in a blockbuster trade is about changing the team chemistry. Cincy just has too many streaky .250 hitters who are prone to long bouts of ineffective service. It almost doesn't matter which interchangeable pieces they deal, they just need to make a big change. The current combination isn't getting the job done, and Cozart, Bruce, Frazier, Heisey and Mesaraco are the most likely candidates to go -- with Leake added to sweeten the pot and help the team make wholesale changes and land a more reliable, franchise-caliber slugger. Like Stubbs or even Hamilton before, each player I'm listing may need a change of scenery to shock their systems. Look at how the addition of Cingrani may be changing Leake: he now appears to be pitching like he fear for his job (and he should). Alternatively, maybe the team simply needs a change in managerial style and direction. I'm no Dusty Baker fan, and feel that change could help too, but I suspect it is this particular combination of players that is the real problem.
    The lineup has way too many similar type hitters. You have to look at other factors when considering who to move aside from bat. Age contract defensive ability and position come to mind. Considering that, I'd not trade Bruce unless you got a huge return. I'd not consider dealing Mez unless it was a can't pass up deal. Simply put we don't know what he is at the big league level yet due to limited inconsistent time. At this point heisey would be just a throw in and I think he's bring more value to the reds bench if used correctly than he'd bring in a trade. Frazier and cozart are interesting pieces to me. Cozart plays short, and we really don't have anyone that plays at his level so I'd hang tight on him. To me Frazier is the odd man out. He's a great pie e to have but this team had many guys similar to him, he's an older player for being a second year player, and he has the most competent backup of any player on the team so if he was dealt aspects such as defense might actually improve at third.

    And finally I don't think Hamilton needed a change of venue. It was pretty obvious they guy had stud potential at least in my mind. I was mad as all get out the day he was traded

  4. #48
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    Re: Trade time: Bruce and Leake for a cleanup hitter

    trade bruce? no way. he is a great player......10% of the time.

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    Re: Trade time: Bruce and Leake for a cleanup hitter

    Quote Originally Posted by holster10 View Post
    trade bruce? no way. he is a great player......10% of the time.
    And he is at least an all star caliber defender 100% of the time. His leash should be getting shorter as he gets more experience in the league, but the guy already has more major league experience than most players in his age group. I think our biggest problem with Bruce are the expectations we had for him. He's not a superstar, but he is an all star player, and unless we got excellent quality in return, then we will sorely miss him. For me this would be the last year where I say he should be near untouchable as far as trades are concerned. Just let him play and I think he'll get back to his norms by the end of the year.

    The comparisons to Stubbs drive me nuts. Stubbs didnt being much to the reds lineup for two years. I can already think of a few games where Bruce has gotten clutch hits for the reds this year. I'd like to see the K total go down, but he is no drew Stubbs with more or less two years of futility.

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    Re: Trade time: Bruce and Leake for a cleanup hitter

    The Reds are current 18-14 and in 2nd place in the NL Central...doesn't mean they aren't frustrating to watch at times, but the need to make wholesale changes, IMO, is currently being overstated.

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  8. #51
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    Re: Trade time: Bruce and Leake for a cleanup hitter

    Quote Originally Posted by dwyerbrg View Post
    The Reds are current 18-14 and in 2nd place in the NL Central...doesn't mean they aren't frustrating to watch at times, but the need to make wholesale changes, IMO, is currently being overstated.
    I don't think changes need to be wholesale. The players to win are in this roster or in the minors. I really think the reds are just one acquisition of a legitimate 4 hole hitter away from being hands down the best team in at least the NL central

  9. #52
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    Re: Trade time: Bruce and Leake for a cleanup hitter

    Unless that cleanup hitter is Stanton, I'm not trading Bruce.

  10. #53
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    Re: Trade time: Bruce and Leake for a cleanup hitter

    Quote Originally Posted by Ghosts of 1990 View Post
    They're not going to just trade Bruce... but he is sealing his fate/legacy as a player in the game of baseball as just "a streaky guy". It speaks volumes that the organization did not want to lock him up to an even longer term deal this past offseason when Bruce camp wanted to do so--it was basically to extend his contract in the same value range it is in now. Says the organization is not so convinced on his ability and quite frankly at this point why would they be.
    It doesn't speak volumes at all. He is locked up till 2017. Very few players in the game who are post-arb can command contracts past that point. Just because he is not one of those guys is no reason to raise an eyebrow at the non-extension. And any speculation on those extension dollars/years is just that, speculation.

  11. #54
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    Re: Trade time: Bruce and Leake for a cleanup hitter

    check the link on ORG "trade idea that wouldn't die" Can you imagine landing Stanton for that package...I wish Rob Huff, the writer was the Gm of the Fish so we could make that deal now!

  12. #55
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    Re: Trade time: Bruce and Leake for a cleanup hitter

    I really don't think the marlins would go for a Stanton for a Bruce plus whoever trade. They are looking to dump money and get cheap young talent in my opinion. Our cf is probably the worst in the NL and left even with ludwick out there would be average. Why trade our best defensive outfield player for Stanton. I think there will be better options for the reds. That doesn't mean better players than Stanton. It means players that you would have to give less value for or pieces that fit into its the nice to have them or they are useful, but we don't need them right now. Right now we need Bruce's D in right bc the rest of the outfield is defensively sub par at the moment with heisey out and Robinson getting minimal time. IMO the thread about Stanton sound be titled the trade idea that needs to die. I'd love to have the guy, but not at the price that trade suggests or for Bruce. So pretty much unless we can rob the marlins, I think we will overpay for the guy wreck our depth at other spots and in the end not be able to afford him. There are better more realistic options out there. Namely Headley if he doesn't re sign or fowler if the Rockies fall out. Hell I'd say Bruce and bailey for trout would be more helpful albeit unrealistic. It'd solidify the centerfield cf D give the reds a legit 2 or 4 hole guy in trout and get choo back to right where he belongs. So can we let the Stanton trade idea die until there are real reports of him being available and the reds bring mentioned in discussions?

  13. #56
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    Re: Trade time: Bruce and Leake for a cleanup hitter

    OldSchool...you missed the trade at the end of the link...I was not proposing Bruce but the package writer Rob Huff suggested...HRod...Lutz...Lotzkar...Guillon or Garrett and 1 of Stephenson/Corcino/Travieso. I'd throw in Hamilton too with that package! (Huff suggests it wouldn't take Billy.Without him I think we'd be outbid). Then I like Vottomatic's idea...Bruce to Colorado for Fowler...sign Choo LT with Bruce's dollars and live for three years with Fowler and Stanton's arb prices. And watch the Reds go to the Series the next three years!

  14. #57
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    Re: Trade time: Bruce and Leake for a cleanup hitter

    Quote Originally Posted by RedlegJake View Post
    OldSchool...you missed the trade at the end of the link...I was not proposing Bruce but the package writer Rob Huff suggested...HRod...Lutz...Lotzkar...Guillon or Garrett and 1 of Stephenson/Corcino/Travieso. I'd throw in Hamilton too with that package! (Huff suggests it wouldn't take Billy.Without him I think we'd be outbid). Then I like Vottomatic's idea...Bruce to Colorado for Fowler...sign Choo LT with Bruce's dollars and live for three years with Fowler and Stanton's arb prices. And watch the Reds go to the Series the next three years!
    Oh I definitely missed that. Thanks for the heads up my fault. That's what I get for sneaking a peek at the board at work. I really like vottomatics idea. To realistically obtain Stanton I think we'd be looking at a three way trade a la choo. We'd definitely have to give up talent but if we could find a third team to give away something to Miami if we give them a piece we don't need, I think it'd make the idea way more realistic. Ill type more on what I'd think it'd take after work.

  15. #58
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    Re: Trade time: Bruce and Leake for a cleanup hitter

    Jake if we could get the marlins to bite on your part for Stanton, then we'd definitely be contenders for the next three years. Hopefully with some well placed draft picks we could restock our minors in the meantime.

  16. #59
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    Re: Trade time: Bruce and Leake for a cleanup hitter

    Quote Originally Posted by HDBoy View Post
    It's now or never: the Reds need to shakeup this team with a blockbuster trade for a more reliable power hitter/right fielder.
    You know they are on pace for 88 wins right?

  17. #60
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    Re: Trade time: Bruce and Leake for a cleanup hitter

    Quote Originally Posted by Krawhitham View Post
    You know they are on pace for 88 wins right?
    I wouldn't say the time is right now but 88 wins might not make the post season and the reds are sorely lacking a cleanup hitter. I'm not banking on a ludwick return. I think they could use a move at the deadline


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