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Thread: It's Billy time....

  1. #16
    .377 in 1905 CySeymour's Avatar
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    Re: It's Billy time....

    I don't see how having Hamilton in the bigs right how would fix anything ailing the Reds. Leave him in AAA to learn how to hit advanced pitching. Stick with the plan.
    ...the 2-2 to Woodsen and here it comes...and it is swung on and missed! And Tom Browning has pitched a perfect game! Twenty-seven outs in a row, and he is being mobbed by his teammates, just to the thirdbase side of the mound.

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  3. #17
    All work and no play..... Vottomatic's Avatar
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    Re: It's Billy time....

    How do we know it wasn't simply a bad month of hitting for the Reds?

    Geez. Even though the Cardinals won 2 of 3, the Reds announcers were talking about Cardinal players who were struggling too. Descalso is batting .169, Freese batting .163 with no HR's (22 last year), Jay batting .204. Other than Molina and Beltran batting over .300, everyone else is batting .265 or less.

    The Cards are lucky their starters have the following e.r.a.'s:
    Wainwright 2.03
    Lynn 2.75
    Garcia 2.50
    Miller 2.05
    Westbrook 0.98
    "I can't take this homerism anymore." - 10xWSChamps, August 11, 2010. A Cardinals fan having a problem with all the homerism on Redszone. Classic.

    "Man do I miss the days where were didn't need a calculator and an encyclopedia of baseball metrics to enjoy a baseball game ... - MikeS21" - 8/2/12 game thread

  4. #18
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    Re: It's Billy time....

    Quote Originally Posted by RedlegJake View Post
    Rodriguez? You mean Hamilton? LOL....I am anxiously following Yorman too but he's still in A ball. Saw your minor league forum question about a late season call for him so I'm betting you had Yorman's future possibilities on your mind when you said that. You must be like me...the whole Reds spectrum at once...
    I do like how yorman is stepping up and I definitely keep an eye on the minors but I was speaking of Henry Rodriguez in AAA. He has a nice contact based bat.

  5. #19
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    Re: It's Billy time....

    Quote Originally Posted by Vottomatic View Post
    How do we know it wasn't simply a bad month of hitting for the Reds?

    Geez. Even though the Cardinals won 2 of 3, the Reds announcers were talking about Cardinal players who were struggling too. Descalso is batting .169, Freese batting .163 with no HR's (22 last year), Jay batting .204. Other than Molina and Beltran batting over .300, everyone else is batting .265 or less.

    The Cards are lucky their starters have the following e.r.a.'s:
    Wainwright 2.03
    Lynn 2.75
    Garcia 2.50
    Miller 2.05
    Westbrook 0.98
    Oh I agree that we have had a bad month of hitting. But think the overall weakness of the makeup of the lineup was exposed. Just too many one dimensional hitters and with the exception of choo votto and Phillips at times, it seems like the reds players swing from their heels too much. And it's just not a this April trend. You can see it in past performances of some of these guys too. I have no doubt that cozart will hit better and Bruce will get hot. What I do doubt is Fraziers ability to make contact. He's looking more like the 2011 Frazier than last years version and he has no extensive track record to lean back on. Same with left field. I think possible in house solutions are there in Robinson and Paul but I lack confidence in dusty to a risky put it in place. Also I don't understand his reasoning in running out corky so much when the offense is struggling.

    As far as the cards pitching I think they are performing over their heads and the reds staff has a much better chance of sustaining their success.

    I know the reds started slow last year and 1975 is always pointed to as well, but in those years the pieces were in place on those teams all they had to do was come together. This year because of injury the reds are lacking a key piece they need. That right handed impact bat. I think Mez has an outside shot of stepping up to be that if dusty lets him play enough. I think Frazier is just too inconsistent to be that guy. So I'm thinking at some point an outside piece will be needed. I think we can hold it together well enough until the deadline. Lets hope they can address the appropriate needs then.

  6. #20
    Where's my chair? REDREAD's Avatar
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    Re: It's Billy time....

    We have to stay the course with Frasier. He's leaps and bounds above anyone in the Reds system that could potentially replace him.

    Now if you want to try some games with Frasier in LF (since LF is a black hole) and Hannaran at 3b, I think that might be worth it.
    Hannaran might do better than the motely crew we've had in LF.
    Thank you Walt and Bob for going for it in 2010-2014!

    Nov. 13, 2007: One of the greatest days in Reds history: John Allen gets the boot!

  7. #21
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    Re: It's Billy time....

    Quote Originally Posted by REDREAD View Post
    We have to stay the course with Frasier. He's leaps and bounds above anyone in the Reds system that could potentially replace him.

    Now if you want to try some games with Frasier in LF (since LF is a black hole) and Hannaran at 3b, I think that might be worth it.
    Hannaran might do better than the motely crew we've had in LF.
    I think that needs to be looked I to more. I also think though choo needs to find his way to a corner outfield spot. I don't want to give up on Frazier, and I hope he proves me wrong, but I just don't think he is the player some people think he is.

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    Re: It's Billy time....

    Hamilton's elite speed is kind of irrelevant if he can't get on base at the major league level. But there's isn't much doubt he'd be a defensive improvement in CF over Choo. But yeah don't want to risk damaging the kid by bringing him up too early.

  9. #23
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    Re: It's Billy time....

    Quote Originally Posted by Goose1701 View Post
    Hamilton's elite speed is kind of irrelevant if he can't get on base at the major league level. But there's isn't much doubt he'd be a defensive improvement in CF over Choo. But yeah don't want to risk damaging the kid by bringing him up too early.
    I really don't "want" to call him up because he is ready because he is not 100% ready. . In a perfect worldwhere the reds don't have injuries out the wazoo I'd not even consider it. The reds do have two hole options in the big leagues that'd be servicable, but dusty wont use them. Generally, if the top prospect comes up he plays. I think it'd force dustys hand a bit. Like I was saying. He doesn't have to be a superstar. He just has to be better than the known alternative. I think he'd do that the minute he'd lay down a bunt, move choo over and cause the D to panic. But really he's a hot streak at AAA away from more people than myself calling for him.
    Last edited by Old school 1983; 05-03-2013 at 09:30 AM.

  10. #24
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    Re: It's Billy time....

    I totally oppose bringing Billy up but you are right....let him get hot and lots of people will start pressing the Billy button. There is this...the guy has always struggled early after a promotion but gets it together and ends up solid. I'm not too concerned about his horrid AAA line yet.

  11. #25
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    Re: It's Billy time....

    Quote Originally Posted by RedlegJake View Post
    I totally oppose bringing Billy up but you are right....let him get hot and lots of people will start pressing the Billy button. There is this...the guy has always struggled early after a promotion but gets it together and ends up solid. I'm not too concerned about his horrid AAA line yet.
    Me either. I'm from the Dayton area and I remember his year with the dragons. He started off cold then it just clicked. This guy is a hard worker and very motivated. He will get there and when he does. The people will be calling for him in Cincinnati especially if the two spot woes continue.

  12. #26
    Moderator RedlegJake's Avatar
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    Re: It's Billy time....

    I used to live on Chaucer Drive near Wright Patt. When Johnny Edwards was still catching for the Reds.

  13. #27
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    Re: It's Billy time....

    Quote Originally Posted by RedlegJake View Post
    I used to live on Chaucer Drive near Wright Patt. When Johnny Edwards was still catching for the Reds.
    That's way back before my time. Dayton has changed a lot. I was born the year Johnny Bench retired.

  14. #28
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    Re: It's Billy time....

    I grew up in Loveland and Hamilton and Dayton. I was in Cincy last spring and didn't recognize hardly anything...and sleepy little Loveland is just a suburban part of the metropolis now. Dayton seemed 4x as big. It all sure has changed. KC is home now but I will always be a Reds fan til I die. I guess the childhood team never leaves ones heart no matter where you go.

  15. #29
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    Re: It's Billy time....

    Oh. I know what you mean. My moms family is from Cincinnati. I grew up on the reds and I never see me not being a fan no matter where I go.

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    Re: It's Billy time....

    Quote Originally Posted by Old school 1983 View Post
    I've seen many different takes in the reds offensive woes and what should be done. Here is mine.

    First off to everyone pointing at left and the two hole as the problem spots that needs fixed. That view while obvious is misguided. They are symptoms of the bigger issue with the offense: no right handed impact bat to protect votto and poorer team D in general.

    Look at the history. 2010 Gomes on fire. Votto protected he wins MVP. Last year we had ludwick to protect Phillips and votto in the three hole. Reds win 97. ( yes I know great D and pitching too but ill get back to that). 2011. No consistent cleanup. No playoffs. Seems like a theme.

    Second issue with this lineup. Too many low contact high pop guys. This results in a one dimemsional atrack in high Ks and inconsistent offensive performances.

    So how to fix it? Well right now it's way too soon to bring in any impact player so the reds are going to have to rely on their pitching to carry them to the trade deadline, but at the same time change things in the lineup.

    Step one: ID the issue. The 4 spot but that can't be fixed until the deadline so fix the symptoms while improving the D.

    So this means the two hole needs fixed while we improve the defense of the team at its two weak links. Center and third.

    First thing first. Do not assume ludwick will return and be at peak form, so It's Billy time. (Robinson down) Yes I know he probably not ready but right now we are getting nothing out of the two spot and our one dimensional approach with no speed is killing the top of the order. Plus just by virtue of his speed and athletic ability, it's a good bet he will be better than choo in center. Then choo can move to left and improve that too. In the two spot I'd use billy to bunt and move choo over and use his speed to disrupt the defense as much as possible and get on himself. He doesn't have to be a star. He just has to do better than cozart et al have done in the two spot so there wouldn't be much pressure.

    Step two: the Bruce Frazier decision. These two back to back in the order are the key culprits for the weak contact high K rally killing issue. So which one to keep in the lineup and who to pull. My answer is pull Todd. Bruce plays all star caliber D that never slumps plus he has a track record of streakiness. Frazier on the otherhand doesn't bring much of anything with his D when the bst is in famine mode. So what to do with third and what to do with Frazier?

    Third: hannahan brings the leather and gives decent at bats staying within himself and makes decent contact. AAA prospect Henry Rodriguez (lutz down for now) brings a solid contact switch hitting bat that the reds could use as a step away from feast or famine fence flailing. So my solution would be when Mez starts at catcher go with the D in hannahan. When anyone else starts go with the O with Hrod.

    Frazier: use him as last year. A super sub and right handed power off the bench. He can crush lesser pitchers or bring pop to the lineup when key stars need a break. Use him in those situations. Pick your spots and pitchers he can crush and insert him wisely. He can be an asset playing 100 to 120 games or so but he gets exposed as undisciplined as he starts more and sees better pitching.

    Catcher: there aren't many hitting issues with the catcher if that catcher is Mez. He gives good at bats seems to have a decent eye and makes hard contact. The other two catchers aren't bringing much to the plate. Solution. So long hanigan is out play Mez 4 out of 5 days. If his injury is prolonged corky needs to go. Bring up Barnhart.

    So after all if that the reds need to sit back and assess and go from there.

    The next part of my plan for at the deadline goes as follows:

    If cingrani is the real deal use either cueto or bailey as the key piece in a trade for Headley from San Diego. If ludwick looks like good right handed power off the bench or in a spot start use Frazier and prospect to grab a plus pitcher to add to rotation. Maybe a josh Johnson rental.

    If cingrani struggles: use prospects to acquire Michael Young from the phillies.

    That'd solve the four spot issue and depending on the billy experiment Phillips could go back to two or behind Bruce.

    So line before deadline:

    Choo
    Hamilton
    Votto
    Phillips
    Bruce
    Mez
    Hannahan/Rodriguez
    Cozart

    Post deadline:

    Choo
    Hamilton
    Votto
    Young/Headley
    Bruce
    Phillips
    Mez
    Cozart

    Or

    Choo
    Phillips
    Votto
    Headley/young
    Bruce
    Ludwick
    Mez
    Cozart

    Well. That's my take. Lets hear how crazy I am and how this is real life and not a video game. Haha
    We are only a month into the season, why change anything? Were not the Angles and way under .500, in fact we are over .500. As for Hamilton you want to see bad numbers, bring him up now and he will be lucky to hit .200 and ever get on base. Speed is great, but not sitting on the Bench. Why mess with Frazier, why worry over less then 30 games played?

    Why trade for a player from SD you wouldn't have pass this season and give up a great pitcher? We have no idea if Cigirini is the real deal and we won't know that for at least another year if then. We are fine right now..


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