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Thread: It's Billy time....

  1. #46
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    Re: It's Billy time....

    We have one of the top offensives in baseball and one of the top records...exactly what is wrong?

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  3. #47
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    Re: It's Billy time....

    An awful lot of discussion here.

    Number 1: don't rush Hamilton until he's comfortable in center and at AAA - the last thing you want is to put him up against the toughest competition when he isn't quite ready and diminish the confidence he's built up. Patience wit Billy. I don't think he'll even see the bigs in September - there's no need for him with Robinson up.

    Number 2: Robinson can almost certainly improve on what Cozart has done in the two hole. He plays good defense, will get on base some, and will steal some bases/score from first on some Votto doubles. Definite improvement. Plus, I believe cozart will perform better at the bottom of the lineup - it allows him to focus on his defense and add some power as the 7 or 8 hitter.

    Number 3: Chase Headley is the answer - he boasts the Gold Glove at third, and would effectively give us an all-gold-glove infield with votto, phillips, and cozart (gg quality imo). The man would fit perfectly either before or after votto - he also keeps the outfield open for hamilton when he is ready

    Potential Lineup: (for 2014)

    LF Choo, L
    CF Hamilton, S
    1B Votto, L
    3B Headley, S
    RF Bruce, L
    2B Phillips, R
    C Mesoraco, R
    SS Cozart, R

    I think this is a feasible lineup, wouldn't break the bank, wouldn't drain the farm, and benefits the lineup as a whole. Most notably, Phillips protecting Bruce would benefit Jay in a huge way. Not to mention - how do you pitch to anyone from 1-6? This offense would prevent the Reds from stalling like they do now.

    I think Headley and Choo could both be signed around 5/75-80 and this team could last too
    The horrors of being a diehard Reds fan living on the North Side of Chicago are unspeakable...

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    Old school 1983 (05-22-2013)

  5. #48
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    Re: It's Billy time....

    Quote Originally Posted by 1869's Original View Post
    An awful lot of discussion here.

    Number 1: don't rush Hamilton until he's comfortable in center and at AAA - the last thing you want is to put him up against the toughest competition when he isn't quite ready and diminish the confidence he's built up. Patience wit Billy. I don't think he'll even see the bigs in September - there's no need for him with Robinson up.

    Number 2: Robinson can almost certainly improve on what Cozart has done in the two hole. He plays good defense, will get on base some, and will steal some bases/score from first on some Votto doubles. Definite improvement. Plus, I believe cozart will perform better at the bottom of the lineup - it allows him to focus on his defense and add some power as the 7 or 8 hitter.

    Number 3: Chase Headley is the answer - he boasts the Gold Glove at third, and would effectively give us an all-gold-glove infield with votto, phillips, and cozart (gg quality imo). The man would fit perfectly either before or after votto - he also keeps the outfield open for hamilton when he is ready

    Potential Lineup: (for 2014)

    LF Choo, L
    CF Hamilton, S
    1B Votto, L
    3B Headley, S
    RF Bruce, L
    2B Phillips, R
    C Mesoraco, R
    SS Cozart, R

    I think this is a feasible lineup, wouldn't break the bank, wouldn't drain the farm, and benefits the lineup as a whole. Most notably, Phillips protecting Bruce would benefit Jay in a huge way. Not to mention - how do you pitch to anyone from 1-6? This offense would prevent the Reds from stalling like they do now.

    I think Headley and Choo could both be signed around 5/75-80 and this team could last too
    Headley to me is the key piece this team is missing. I was saying bring up billy bc it'd force dustys had to bat him two. I'd like Robinson there now but dusty well is dusty. The way Hamilton is hearing up at AAA could make things interesting though if the two hole woes continue.

  6. #49
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    Re: It's Billy time....

    Quote Originally Posted by Old school 1983 View Post
    Headley to me is the key piece this team is missing. I was saying bring up billy bc it'd force dustys had to bat him two. I'd like Robinson there now but dusty well is dusty. The way Hamilton is hearing up at AAA could make things interesting though if the two hole woes continue.
    You're right about Dusty being Dusty

  7. #50
    * Bat Votto Second * goreds2's Avatar
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    Re: It's Billy time....

    Bring him up to play left field and bat Choo second.
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    Re: It's Billy time....

    I will say it again. The Padres have no reason whatever to trade Headley without a kings ransom in return. I don't believe he is worth it. The Reds after all would not be the only interested team. The Cards could offer Freese and a couple high quality prospects easily. We'd be outbid or forced to pay too much. I sure hope Walt explores the possibilty (never know unless ya make an offer)but I trust his common sense to walk away if the price escalates to stupid territory.

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    Don Cameron (05-28-2013)

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    Re: It's Billy time....

    Quote Originally Posted by RedlegJake View Post
    I will say it again. The Padres have no reason whatever to trade Headley without a kings ransom in return. I don't believe he is worth it. The Reds after all would not be the only interested team. The Cards could offer Freese and a couple high quality prospects easily. We'd be outbid or forced to pay too much. I sure hope Walt explores the possibilty (never know unless ya make an offer)but I trust his common sense to walk away if the price escalates to stupid territory.
    Forget Headley. If billy plays well enough at AAA then he should come up. Idk why Headley is seen as so expensive but Bautista is seen as a real target. He makes more and I'm sure the jays would want a huge return for him. I think he'd at least be worth looking into. Not a trade for at all costs. That's stupid to do with anyone. Why would the cards want Headley anyway? Everyone here thinks his OPS and power numbers just aren't high enough and his last year may have been a fluke or PED related. Lets just see which aging left fielder we can get so we can keep quite possibly the worst defensive cf in the league in cf.
    Last edited by Old school 1983; 05-27-2013 at 11:28 PM.

  11. #53
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    Re: It's Billy time....

    I laugh and chuckle when I see and read trade proposals for this guy or that guy to perfect the Reds batting order. Bautista? Headley? Come on. Really?

    Who do we give up for these gems? Corcino? Stevenson? Cingrani? Hamilton? Or, are the other GM's in baseball just outright Reds fans and willing to trade middle of the line-up guys to the Reds for minor league role players and or late twenties second year players?

    Appreciate this team for what it is. Frazier and Cozart are average major league baseball players, but they get the job done. Will they win silver slugger awards? Probably not, but they are cheap and they function.

    Could we have a better two hole hitter? Would Paul and Robinson make better two spot hitters? Perhaps. But Baker is a player's manager and he will not give up on his plan or his vision when they have only played 50 games and when they are on the heels of the Cardinals for the best record in the National League.

    Let this team play out. Let Jocketty find and/or develop that left fielder. This team will go far on its pitching staff, both now and in the future.

    Chasing the power hitters of below .500 teams is an exercise in futility which will cripple the farm system of this team.

    Don Cameron
    Peace, Love, Dope-- Now get the hell out.

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    Re: It's Billy time....

    Quote Originally Posted by goreds2 View Post
    Bring him up to play left field and bat Choo second.
    ? umm no. I wouldnt even think about bringing him up. But then move choo out of the lead off? Why would you do that? just because hamilton is fast? Okay dusty. you arent fooling anyone anymore. Nice to see you participating in the Redszone though

  13. #55
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    Re: It's Billy time....

    Quote Originally Posted by Don Cameron View Post
    I laugh and chuckle when I see and read trade proposals for this guy or that guy to perfect the Reds batting order. Bautista? Headley? Come on. Really?

    Who do we give up for these gems? Corcino? Stevenson? Cingrani? Hamilton? Or, are the other GM's in baseball just outright Reds fans and willing to trade middle of the line-up guys to the Reds for minor league role players and or late twenties second year players?

    Appreciate this team for what it is. Frazier and Cozart are average major league baseball players, but they get the job done. Will they win silver slugger awards? Probably not, but they are cheap and they function.

    Could we have a better two hole hitter? Would Paul and Robinson make better two spot hitters? Perhaps. But Baker is a player's manager and he will not give up on his plan or his vision when they have only played 50 games and when they are on the heels of the Cardinals for the best record in the National League.

    Let this team play out. Let Jocketty find and/or develop that left fielder. This team will go far on its pitching staff, both now and in the future.

    Chasing the power hitters of below .500 teams is an exercise in futility which will cripple the farm system of this team.

    Don Cameron
    Peace, Love, Dope-- Now get the hell out.
    I'm really not thinking it'd cripple the farm system or the big league club if you do it correctly and pass if the asking price gets too high. But if a trade like that were to happen it'd be fun to see the whining on here after.

    I think jocketty found our left fielder for the rest of this year. His name is shin soo choo but for some odd reason he needs to play center.

    In reality I think this is how it plays out. If Hamilton can continue improving jocketty may test the market for third basemen. Maybe go after a veteran rental type Michael young, or see if he can nab and aging star like ramirez from the brewers. If Hamilton doesn't seem ready he probably goes for a left fielder. And also i think he ought to look At lefty relievers. I think this leaves the team defensively vulnerable in center and with little speed in the lineup but what do I know I'm just a guy who dreams big for the reds and wants them to try to make a deal for a star.

    For the record Hamilton cingrani corcino and Stephenson are pretty far from minor league role players. Also Romano and Cisco in Dayton look like they have upside. Even if you look at the reds roster Mez could be an intriguing trade piece because really he's never been able to develop much past prospect status in my mind. Also, while I think it'd not be the smartest move a guy like bailey could be used in a trade if Walt doesn't think he has a chance to resign him. Leake also has looked great lately and has value. So the reds have more to offer than minor league role players and late twenties second year guys. It just all depends on the level of risk Walt wants to take.
    Last edited by Old school 1983; 05-28-2013 at 09:57 AM.

  14. #56
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    Re: It's Billy time....

    Quote Originally Posted by coachpipe View Post
    ? umm no. I wouldnt even think about bringing him up. But then move choo out of the lead off? Why would you do that? just because hamilton is fast? Okay dusty. you arent fooling anyone anymore. Nice to see you participating in the Redszone though
    I'd bat him second. But for whatever reason everyone thinks that billy just won't be ready this year. If his performance denotes he should be called up, do it. Put him in center and choo in left. Leave choo batting first though. Idk why that's even be in question.

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    Re: It's Billy time....

    Quote Originally Posted by Old school 1983 View Post
    I'd bat him second. But for whatever reason everyone thinks that billy just won't be ready this year. If his performance denotes he should be called up, do it. Put him in center and choo in left. Leave choo batting first though. Idk why that's even be in question.
    Then Choo can't lead off anymore, it'd have to be Billy since he's in CF. Choo in LF has to bat 6th or 7th.

  16. #58
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    Re: It's Billy time....

    My point being is this--

    You are not going to get a Headley/Stanton/Bautista type player unless you give up a LOT. It will cost AT THE VERY LEAST...Cingrani or Stevenson, probably Frazier and AT LEAST one more top tier minor league caliber player.

    To mention or pretend a trade would take place without a fleecing of the top young minor league pitching prospects and some major league players is ridiculous.

    Choo will remain in center field. He was given that position in spring training. Robinson and Heisey are better center fielders, but Baker is a player's manger and believes in static line-ups both offensively and defensively, much to the fans' chagrin, but the players liking.

    Choo will NEVER be Drew Stubbs, Eric Davis, or Cesar Geronimo--but he is, at the very least an 2002- 2006 aging Ken Griffey Jr out there, and he will remain there through this year until he takes his talents to a large market from 2014 through 2019--depending on which city will shell out the most money for a Scott Boras player. (I am banking on the Yankees, Mets, Red Sox, and possibly Seattle.)

    Hamilton will be brought up in September, along with (depending on innings thrown and injury) Cingrani.

    I agree that Michael Young would be an interesting addition, IF Votto or Frazier go down with an injury. I think he could be had for marginal minor league player--depending on his contract, etc.

    The only MAJOR thing the Reds need is another left hander in the bullpen. Baker's reluctance to bring in Parra in the eighth inning against Giambi, Borne, and Kipnis coming up yesterday (and to not even having him warm up), really tells you all you need to know about Parra.

    The Reds will NOT trade Bailey, Leake, Latos or Cueto until at LEAST July of 2015.

    Basically what this off-season will include--Arroyo and Choo walk away from the Reds (turning down lower than market offers from Cincinnati) The Reds will use that money to pay the arbitration increases of Latos, Bailey, Leake, Chapman, Hanigan, Heisey, Simon, LeCure, and Paul.

    This team can stay together, realistically, through 2016, before they all hit free agency. Which is why you CANNOT trade ANY decent STARTING pitching in the minor leagues. Best case scenario will be that the Reds can convince Cueto and one of Leake, Latos, or Bailey to stay beyond 2016 and allow Corcino, Cingrani, and Stephenson to step up to the plate.

    Don Cameron
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  17. #59
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    Re: It's Billy time....

    Quote Originally Posted by Don Cameron View Post
    My point being is this--

    You are not going to get a Headley/Stanton/Bautista type player unless you give up a LOT. It will cost AT THE VERY LEAST...Cingrani or Stevenson, probably Frazier and AT LEAST one more top tier minor league caliber player.

    To mention or pretend a trade would take place without a fleecing of the top young minor league pitching prospects and some major league players is ridiculous.

    Choo will remain in center field. He was given that position in spring training. Robinson and Heisey are better center fielders, but Baker is a player's manger and believes in static line-ups both offensively and defensively, much to the fans' chagrin, but the players liking.

    Choo will NEVER be Drew Stubbs, Eric Davis, or Cesar Geronimo--but he is, at the very least an 2002- 2006 aging Ken Griffey Jr out there, and he will remain there through this year until he takes his talents to a large market from 2014 through 2019--depending on which city will shell out the most money for a Scott Boras player. (I am banking on the Yankees, Mets, Red Sox, and possibly Seattle.)

    Hamilton will be brought up in September, along with (depending on innings thrown and injury) Cingrani.

    I agree that Michael Young would be an interesting addition, IF Votto or Frazier go down with an injury. I think he could be had for marginal minor league player--depending on his contract, etc.

    The only MAJOR thing the Reds need is another left hander in the bullpen. Baker's reluctance to bring in Parra in the eighth inning against Giambi, Borne, and Kipnis coming up yesterday (and to not even having him warm up), really tells you all you need to know about Parra.

    The Reds will NOT trade Bailey, Leake, Latos or Cueto until at LEAST July of 2015.

    Basically what this off-season will include--Arroyo and Choo walk away from the Reds (turning down lower than market offers from Cincinnati) The Reds will use that money to pay the arbitration increases of Latos, Bailey, Leake, Chapman, Hanigan, Heisey, Simon, LeCure, and Paul.

    This team can stay together, realistically, through 2016, before they all hit free agency. Which is why you CANNOT trade ANY decent STARTING pitching in the minor leagues. Best case scenario will be that the Reds can convince Cueto and one of Leake, Latos, or Bailey to stay beyond 2016 and allow Corcino, Cingrani, and Stephenson to step up to the plate.

    Don Cameron
    A cheese lover
    Headley in my mind is a dream situation. Any of those guys would cost a ton and you'd have to weigh the present with the future in any such deal. Id really like the reds to not just paint themselves in a corner and look strictly just for left fielders. If a good enough third basemen was acquired, and billy was able to come up or ludwick comeback decentish. Then I think you could go choo in center and a ludwick in left perhaps with a platoon partner or Hamilton in center and choo in left. I get the thinking that choo was brought in to play center but that was before ludwick was injured, and injuries require some flexibility.

    A guy that would be intriguing to me is Aramis ramirez. He's no longer a super star but he's by no means done. So hed cost but not a fortune. He plays for an in division team, so it'd make a trade tricky, but the brew crew isn't exactly in it. It'd be an interesting piece to explore.

    As far as Hamilton I'd like to see him brought up before September so he'd be plsyoff eligible much like chapman in 2010

    I do enjoy your posts. You always make good points from what I've seen and are always levelheaded. I like that as well as the quotes you put in your signature. Always entertaining.
    Last edited by Old school 1983; 05-28-2013 at 11:38 AM.


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