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Thread: How Much More Rope Do You Give Cozart?

  1. #46
    Member Norm Chortleton's Avatar
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    Re: How Much More Rope Do You Give Cozart?

    One more thing...

    I never complained when Dunn was striking out at unprecedented levels. I do not and will not complain when Votto and Ludwick strike out. (I will admit I sometimes complain when Bruce strikes out .) If you are paid to drive in runs, strikeouts go with the territory.

    My biggest pet peeve is non-power hitters whose outs are not productive outs. And the Reds are full of these players.

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  3. #47
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    Re: How Much More Rope Do You Give Cozart?

    Would you trade Chapman and Cingrani for Tulowitzki?

    Would the Rockies?

    (I believe the answer to both questions could likely be no, but just trying to be provocative.)
    Go BLUE!!!

  4. #48
    Member 1940757690's Avatar
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    Re: How Much More Rope Do You Give Cozart?

    Quote Originally Posted by Benihana View Post
    Would you trade Chapman and Cingrani for Tulowitzki?

    Would the Rockies?

    (I believe the answer to both questions could likely be no, but just trying to be provocative.)
    Hell no. Crazy talk.
    Reds & Nats, 2013 LCS. Take2 (9/13) Reds but no Nats

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  6. #49
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    Re: How Much More Rope Do You Give Cozart?

    Quote Originally Posted by Benihana View Post
    Would you trade Chapman and Cingrani for Tulowitzki?

    Would the Rockies?

    (I believe the answer to both questions could likely be no, but just trying to be provocative.)
    Chapman and Leake I would do, for the record. Ditto for Broxton and Cingrani.

    Chapman and Cingrani, probably not.

    Either way the money would probably never work.
    Go BLUE!!!

  7. #50
    breath westofyou's Avatar
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    Frankly no trade will happen and talk of it derails the thread, in a world with Ludwick in LF he's slotted in the 7th spot, but with Heisey's injury and hacktastic performance so far The Reds ( Not just Dusty (punching bag) Baker) have decided to that he should see some ABs at the second slot,

    So far we have a fail in the batting category

    Which leads me to the next fact... he is a SS who has a decent glove, which should account for 70% of his worth.

    Wanting..... the essence of the fandom, weighing and balancing, the reality of the game.

  8. #51
    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
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    Re: How Much More Rope Do You Give Cozart?

    Quote Originally Posted by Benihana View Post
    Would you trade Chapman and Cingrani for Tulowitzki?

    Would the Rockies?

    (I believe the answer to both questions could likely be no, but just trying to be provocative.)
    In a heartbeat (from the Reds perspective).
    Last edited by RedsManRick; 05-03-2013 at 12:27 AM.
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

  9. #52
    Member redsfandan's Avatar
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    Re: How Much More Rope Do You Give Cozart?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Servo View Post
    I've never thought of Cozart as the longterm, penciled in SS for the Reds. That said, the only problem I have with him is that he is batting 2nd and that's obviously something he doesn't control.
    To me that's a separate problem. Cozart is fine as long as he's not too expensive. That's one of the good things about him right now. His salary helps to make up for the more expensive contracts. And his offense should pick up the rest of the season. But, he's never going to be a top offensive shortstop and when he does become more expensive he'll be harder to justify as the Reds shortstop. Now that Gregorious is gone and Hamilton has been converted to the outfield it's a big question mark what other options they'll have in a few years.
    "Now that's a real shame when folks be throwin' away a perfectly good white boy like that."

  10. #53
    Member redsfandan's Avatar
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    Re: How Much More Rope Do You Give Cozart?

    Quote Originally Posted by Benihana View Post
    Would you trade Chapman and Cingrani for Tulowitzki?

    Would the Rockies?

    (I believe the answer to both questions could likely be no, but just trying to be provocative.)
    Maybe.

    IF I knew that Tulo would be healthy for the rest of the season than I might do that deal. Maybe. The Reds would need to have other options for the 6th starter and obviously the bullpen would take a hit but the upgrade from Cozart to Tulo would be BIG. That's a hypothetical deal that makes less sense long term but short term, if you really want to win it all this year, I'd think you'd have to at least consider it..
    "Now that's a real shame when folks be throwin' away a perfectly good white boy like that."

  11. #54
    Member smixsell's Avatar
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    Re: How Much More Rope Do You Give Cozart?

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeS21 View Post
    All right ... I'll just throw this out. At what point do the Reds begin to look for an upgrade at SS?

    We all know that Cozart is a better than average defender. But slick-fielding, no-hit shortstops are a dime a dozen. He has a little pop and might give you 12-15 HR's a season, but hitting a HR once every two or three weeks is the extent of his offense.

    Wouldn't it be better to look for a better-than-average fielding SS, who can give you an OBP of .325-.335, even if you lose a little power from the position?

    I know SS is supposed to be a defensive position first, and any offense is gravy, but I can't help but think the Reds could easily upgrade the position and get as good or better defense, and better offense, as well.

    Perhaps Cozart might be better suited as a utility infielder.
    As much rope as he needs. Cozart is going to wind up with numbers comparable to last season IMO. Cozart is going to be the Reds SS for a long time, and a good one with both the glove and the stick.

  12. #55
    Member smixsell's Avatar
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    Re: How Much More Rope Do You Give Cozart?

    Quote Originally Posted by coachpipe View Post
    I think hes becoming the product of a dusty baker lineup. I dont have a solution other than to switch the batting order around until you find one that works. But the guy in front of votto needs to be someone who can work a count and get on base. They will pitch to the guy before votto the same as they will pitch to votto. meaning nothing good to hit. A pitcher doesnt want someone on base when Joey gets up to bat
    That guy is Choo. I've officially joined the "Votto should bat second" crowd. It's not ideal, but with our current cast of characters Joey is my pick to bat second.

  13. #56
    Member 757690's Avatar
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    Re: How Much More Rope Do You Give Cozart?

    Quote Originally Posted by Benihana View Post
    Would you trade Chapman and Cingrani for Tulowitzki?

    Would the Rockies?

    (I believe the answer to both questions could likely be no, but just trying to be provocative.)
    I can give you 134 million reasons why the Reds shouldn't make that trade.

    But even ignoring the money, I still wouldn't.

    You win with pitching.
    "Man, the pitch looks fast, even in slow motion." Thom Brennaman on Chapman's fastball.

  14. #57
    Member 757690's Avatar
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    Re: How Much More Rope Do You Give Cozart?

    As for Cozart, he could end the season with the same OPS and I still would be happy with him. SS is a defense first position. Any offense a guy with Cozart's glove provides is a bonus.
    "Man, the pitch looks fast, even in slow motion." Thom Brennaman on Chapman's fastball.

  15. #58
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    Re: How Much More Rope Do You Give Cozart?

    Jocketty should have exhausted all other possibilities to still acquire Choo, WITHOUT giving up Gregorius. Didi just turned 23, athletic rangy SS with a cannon for an arm, excellent defender, great bat speed, pitch recognition and plate discipline. We would have our franchise SS for the next decade. 2013 should have been Cozart's last year, then trade him this winter and hand the keys to Didi in 2014.

    That being said, Cozart should hit NO higher than 8th in our line up. IMHO, the BIGGEST problem we have is no RH LF who hits for power and average. If your going to pay Votto 225 M, get him someone who forces the opposition to pitch to Joey, we do not have that player. Walt should be working non stop to find that player, whether thru the draft/trades/international market, etc. Cespedes would have been perfect.

    The line up for the future should be:

    B Hamilton
    Choo (resign)
    Votto
    Mesoraco
    Bruce
    Phillips
    Frazier
    Cozart

    or (without Choo)

    Hamilton
    Phillips
    Votto
    RH LF
    Bruce
    Frazier
    Mesoraco
    Cozart

    The Reds desperately need a J Upton/Cespedes/Stanton/Craig/ A Jones/Trumbo/McCutcheon/Tulo/ Posey type of player.

  16. #59
    Future Fame of Holler WildcatFan's Avatar
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    Re: How Much More Rope Do You Give Cozart?

    Quote Originally Posted by Red Swagger View Post
    The Reds desperately need a J Upton/Cespedes/Stanton/Craig/ A Jones/Trumbo/McCutcheon/Tulo/ Posey type of player.
    Doesn't everybody?
    "I never argue with people who say baseball is boring, because baseball is boring. And then, suddenly, it isn't. And that's what makes it great." - Joe Posnanski

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  18. #60
    malingered here too long malcontent's Avatar
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    Re: How Much More Rope Do You Give Cozart?

    Quote Originally Posted by smixsell View Post
    I've officially joined the "Votto should bat second" crowd.
    So have I. Of course, Baker will never do it.
    Everything is perfect, but there is a lot of room for improvement. --- Shunryu Suzuki-roshi


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