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Thread: If the Reds win central...

  1. #31
    Savante SpiritofStLouis's Avatar
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    Re: If the Reds win central...

    Just a couple thoughts...

    Please disist from the schedule argument. The Reds played 16 of their first 23 at home, which included the 2 worst teams in the NL. The Cardinals opened with 16 of their first 22 on the road, including the defending world champs.

    Drop the injury argument, the Cardinals lost their ace, their starting SS and their closer, who led the league in saves in 2012.

    Finally, lose the scrap heap argument. The Redbirds have more home grown talent on their roster than just about any team in MLB. They have replaced players with players from their minor league system.

    I hate to be the one to break this, but the Cardinal farm system is LOADED. Not only have I never seen such wealth in the St.Louis system, but I'm hard pressed to have seen it anywhere, and I have been a student of the game for almost 50 years.

    Having said that, I picked the Reds to win the division and the Redbirds to miss the playoffs this year. I figured that next year St.Louis would begin to flourish, what with 40 large coming off the books and the first wave of youngsters being promoted.

    Circumstances have dictated that the timetable be accelerated. They way I see it, by 2015 this team is going to be everyone's nightmare.
    We can share the women, we can share the wine.

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  3. #32
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    Re: If the Reds win central...

    I think reds farm system under valued..hard to believe 85 players better than cingrani with his numbers in minors and majors

  4. #33
    Member Old school 1983's Avatar
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    Re: If the Reds win central...

    Quote Originally Posted by SpiritofStLouis View Post
    Just a couple thoughts...

    Please disist from the schedule argument. The Reds played 16 of their first 23 at home, which included the 2 worst teams in the NL. The Cardinals opened with 16 of their first 22 on the road, including the defending world champs.

    Drop the injury argument, the Cardinals lost their ace, their starting SS and their closer, who led the league in saves in 2012.

    Finally, lose the scrap heap argument. The Redbirds have more home grown talent on their roster than just about any team in MLB. They have replaced players with players from their minor league system.

    I hate to be the one to break this, but the Cardinal farm system is LOADED. Not only have I never seen such wealth in the St.Louis system, but I'm hard pressed to have seen it anywhere, and I have been a student of the game for almost 50 years.

    Having said that, I picked the Reds to win the division and the Redbirds to miss the playoffs this year. I figured that next year St.Louis would begin to flourish, what with 40 large coming off the books and the first wave of youngsters being promoted.

    Circumstances have dictated that the timetable be accelerated. They way I see it, by 2015 this team is going to be everyone's nightmare.
    The schedule argument is lame IMO. It's not like a 16 game football season where it can do you in. By the end if the year everyone plays everyone enough in a division that it evens out, so in baseball I don't even worry about it at all.

    I'd call the injuries situation a push. Both teams have them. They both have big issues bc of them.

    The scrap heap thing annoys me to no end. The cards rely on proven talent at the heart of their order and top of rotation. The guys they get off the scrap heap have talent, for whatever reason the cards find a way to get it out of them. The reds use scrap heap guys quite a bit. Ludwick was one. So was BP. Volquez was a failed prospect until he got to Cincinnati.

    By 2015 if the reds make the right moves it could be scary too. I expect the reds to still be the best in the division by they as well.

    So my point being. I hate the cards. I really do but come on guys respect them. They have talent and a nice farm system. Lets just quit using luck and scrap heap and anything else as an excuse and just beat the cards. If the reds win, it doesn't matter what the cards do.

  5. #34
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    Re: If the Reds win central...

    What we mean about scrap heap..is players that played for three different teams the last five years how many do the reds have?

  6. #35
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    Re: If the Reds win central...

    Quote Originally Posted by DWS1125 View Post
    What we mean about scrap heap..is players that played for three different teams the last five years how many do the reds have?
    Sometimes it's not who you have but how well thy play as a group in the environment you have them in. There is more to team production than just stats. Bottom line. If the reds win it doesn't matter for squat what the cards do. And as reds fans, constantly worrying and stuff about the cards makes us look like we have an inferiority complex. Lets just focus on the reds and making them better. If we can draw ideas from the cards success or any other teams success by all means we should, but complaining about scrap heap and luck makes us look jealous, weak, and looking for an excuse. Once again. Bottom line: if the reds win, what the cards do does not matter!!

  7. #36
    Savante SpiritofStLouis's Avatar
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    Re: If the Reds win central...

    Quote Originally Posted by Old school 1983 View Post
    The schedule argument is lame IMO. It's not like a 16 game football season where it can do you in. By the end if the year everyone plays everyone enough in a division that it evens out, so in baseball I don't even worry about it at all.

    I'd call the injuries situation a push. Both teams have them. They both have big issues bc of them.

    The scrap heap thing annoys me to no end. The cards rely on proven talent at the heart of their order and top of rotation. The guys they get off the scrap heap have talent, for whatever reason the cards find a way to get it out of them. The reds use scrap heap guys quite a bit. Ludwick was one. So was BP. Volquez was a failed prospect until he got to Cincinnati.

    By 2015 if the reds make the right moves it could be scary too. I expect the reds to still be the best in the division by they as well.

    So my point being. I hate the cards. I really do but come on guys respect them. They have talent and a nice farm system. Lets just quit using luck and scrap heap and anything else as an excuse and just beat the cards. If the reds win, it doesn't matter what the cards do.
    Your points are well taken and well stated. My only point of contention is the use of the word " hate ".

    Being a New Yorker and growing up in the northeast, I have never embraced the " hatred " that Cardinal fans have for the Cubs (especially since they suck every year).

    It's a game, there's no reason to hate another franchise. Respect them, despise them, but there's no reason for hate.

    Too much of that going around on this planet. Just sayin'.
    We can share the women, we can share the wine.

  8. #37
    Savante SpiritofStLouis's Avatar
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    Re: If the Reds win central...

    Quote Originally Posted by Old school 1983 View Post
    Sometimes it's not who you have but how well thy play as a group in the environment you have them in. There is more to team production than just stats. Bottom line. If the reds win it doesn't matter for squat what the cards do. And as reds fans, constantly worrying and stuff about the cards makes us look like we have an inferiority complex. Lets just focus on the reds and making them better. If we can draw ideas from the cards success or any other teams success by all means we should, but complaining about scrap heap and luck makes us look jealous, weak, and looking for an excuse. Once again. Bottom line: if the reds win, what the cards do does not matter!!
    Bingo.
    We can share the women, we can share the wine.

  9. #38
    Member Old school 1983's Avatar
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    Re: If the Reds win central...

    Quote Originally Posted by SpiritofStLouis View Post
    Your points are well taken and well stated. My only point of contention is the use of the word " hate ".

    Being a New Yorker and growing up in the northeast, I have never embraced the " hatred " that Cardinal fans have for the Cubs (especially since they suck every year).

    It's a game, there's no reason to hate another franchise. Respect them, despise them, but there's no reason for hate.

    Too much of that going around on this planet. Just sayin'.
    Point taken. Strongly despise works. Lol

  10. #39
    Moderator RedlegJake's Avatar
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    Re: If the Reds win central...

    The strong feelings are a reflection of a growing rivalry. That is a good thing when fans don't get idiotic and make it personal against the fans of the other team. Remxembering this is a Reds board first and being a bit diplomatic (Not apologetic) can lead to some good discussion but you'll get some guff just being a Cards fan SoSL. I like insight into the "enemy" camp and roster thru a fans eyes but there is also a time its better not to post retorts. When it gets incendiary. Personally I have great respect for the Cards and their history. Still despise em though but as a long transplanted Missourian from Cincy I've learned to live among Cards rooters. Somehow they are amazingly human like me. Haven't met any with three eyes or horns so far...

  11. #40
    All work and no play..... Vottomatic's Avatar
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    Re: If the Reds win central...

    Quote Originally Posted by SpiritofStLouis View Post
    Just a couple thoughts...

    Please disist from the schedule argument. The Reds played 16 of their first 23 at home, which included the 2 worst teams in the NL. The Cardinals opened with 16 of their first 22 on the road, including the defending world champs.

    Drop the injury argument, the Cardinals lost their ace, their starting SS and their closer, who led the league in saves in 2012.

    Finally, lose the scrap heap argument. The Redbirds have more home grown talent on their roster than just about any team in MLB. They have replaced players with players from their minor league system.

    I hate to be the one to break this, but the Cardinal farm system is LOADED. Not only have I never seen such wealth in the St.Louis system, but I'm hard pressed to have seen it anywhere, and I have been a student of the game for almost 50 years.

    Having said that, I picked the Reds to win the division and the Redbirds to miss the playoffs this year. I figured that next year St.Louis would begin to flourish, what with 40 large coming off the books and the first wave of youngsters being promoted.

    Circumstances have dictated that the timetable be accelerated. They way I see it, by 2015 this team is going to be everyone's nightmare.
    Ah yes..........the "everyone in our loaded farm system is a future superstar" assumption.

    Good luck with that one.
    "I can't take this homerism anymore." - 10xWSChamps, August 11, 2010. A Cardinals fan having a problem with all the homerism on Redszone. Classic.

    "Man do I miss the days where were didn't need a calculator and an encyclopedia of baseball metrics to enjoy a baseball game ... - MikeS21" - 8/2/12 game thread

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    RedlegJake (05-08-2013)

  13. #41
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    Re: If the Reds win central...

    Well. They do have a loaded system,per everyone who follows minor leagues ball. And you should look at how Wacca, Tavares, and Wong are performing. All three will be starters next year and are performing exceptionally well in AAA.

  14. #42
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    Re: If the Reds win central...

    Loaded farm systems don't guarantee anything, but unfortunately the Cards might be the best team in the game when it comes to developing players, not just blue chippers, but all prospects in general.

  15. #43
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    Re: If the Reds win central...

    Quote Originally Posted by Goose1701 View Post
    Loaded farm systems don't guarantee anything, but unfortunately the Cards might be the best team in the game when it comes to developing players, not just blue chippers, but all prospects in general.
    I'm going to have to agree with you on this one. Any prospect they bring up seems ready to contribute at the big league level.

  16. #44
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    Re: If the Reds win central...

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidMemphis View Post
    I get what you are saying, but I am going by what is on paper and what should (and probably will) pan out. Not by numbers from a very small sample size of this season. Perfect example is the Angels. They are much better than their record (in my opinion of course). When you look at the teams we have faced (angels, nats, cards, only to name a few), our schedule is much easier down the road than it was in April. To take a sample size of what has happened thus far, I do not believe is an accurate way to dispill how 'good' a team is.
    The Angels pitching is very bad. Terrible bullpen last year. Not much of an improvement this year. Once Weaver went down that staff went from average to below average very quickly.

    Offense was supposed to carry them all the way but they even lack speed to help them....like they used to have in Figgins.... the good Figgins I mean.

  17. #45
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    Re: If the Reds win central...

    Quote Originally Posted by Tony Cloninger View Post
    The Angels pitching is very bad. Terrible bullpen last year. Not much of an improvement this year. Once Weaver went down that staff went from average to below average very quickly.

    Offense was supposed to carry them all the way but they even lack speed to help them....like they used to have in Figgins.... the good Figgins I mean.
    I never expected the angels to do much for the very reason you just said. When weaver got hurt it just compounded the issue.


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