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Thread: Cardinals are luckiest team in baseball.

  1. #61
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    Re: Cardinals are luckiest team in baseball.

    Never mind the clutch hitting. Actually, the Cards ran into a number of outs the last two games that cost them runs.

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  3. #62
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    Re: Cardinals are luckiest team in baseball.

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeThierry View Post
    Not impressed with a kid who can top 100 and has a change up around 90 mph? Chapman has really spoiled your view of what impresses you
    Martinez sounds like Stephenson....and the Reds system is loaded with arms. Its at the positions that the Cards have a better system...but prospects can be fools gold. And the Reds aren' t exactly bereft of talent. Both teams look to be well supplied...who actually produces and how soon and how badly each team needs to fill holes will tell the story. I wouldn't look to either team to fall away or pull out of reach of the other over the next 3-4 years based on either team's farm system.

  4. #63
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    Re: Cardinals are luckiest team in baseball.

    Quote Originally Posted by RedlegJake View Post
    Martinez sounds like Stephenson....and the Reds system is loaded with arms. Its at the positions that the Cards have a better system...but prospects can be fools gold. And the Reds aren' t exactly bereft of talent. Both teams look to be well supplied...who actually produces and how soon and how badly each team needs to fill holes will tell the story. I wouldn't look to either team to fall away or pull out of reach of the other over the next 3-4 years based on either team's farm system.
    Better ramp up that payroll to start locking it down.

  5. #64
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    Re: Cardinals are luckiest team in baseball.

    Quote Originally Posted by CardsFanBob View Post
    Better ramp up that payroll to start locking it down.
    There is room. The new money coming on will let the Reds add payroll for raises. It is intelligent forecasting and some luck figuring who is worth it and who to look to the market or the farm to replace. Cards fans should realize money ain't their big seperator anymore. Reds have an owner who will buck up. Even the Cards economize where they can and which team manages to figure the right answers from loaded farms and the current rosters will likely rise enough to keep ahead of the other. I like the Reds chances a lot over the next few years.

  6. #65
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    Re: Cardinals are luckiest team in baseball.

    http://www.stltoday.com/sports/colum...30aca5659.html

    The above article made me think of this thread. Yes, the Cardinals were most definitely lucky that Albert accepted more money from the Angels, instead of agreeing to the Cardinals 10-year offer, which was still something around $270M or so.

    That said, they made the most of their luck with smart moves... as Bernie Miklasz points out. Thought some of you might want to read this. Maybe not.

  7. #66
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    Re: Cardinals are luckiest team in baseball.

    Sometimes the best free agents are the ones you don't sign...especially when they are yours.

  8. #67
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    Re: Cardinals are luckiest team in baseball.

    Quote Originally Posted by RedlegJake View Post
    Sometimes the best free agents are the ones you don't sign...especially when they are yours.
    Exactly. You have to spend wisely and not let your heart in in the way of what's practical for the team.

  9. #68
    Moderator RedlegJake's Avatar
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    Re: Cardinals are luckiest team in baseball.

    I thought the Cards were out of their gourds to offer AP as much as they did. Albatross contract even now. Baseball is a funny game. Any one player is NEVER make or break as per the long haul. Seattle lost Johnson Griffey Jr and Rodriguez in a short span yet had their best seasons afterwards. Individual players affect teams less directly in baseball than any other major sport. So, in that respect teams ha e to wary of over valuing any player LT. OTOH you need to be able to lock in core players. How welk you do, especially for small to mid market teams depends on how well you make those choices.Statistically almost all players peak between 28-31 then have a couple years where their experience can compensate for physical decline then they start falling off. So a team that gets pkayers from the farm gets several of a players very best years at low cost. Signing FAs to huge contracts that extend beyond age 33-34 and especially into the late 30s is extremely risky unless the contract is a real bargain overall. Sign them LT in arb, avoid the first couple years of free agency to maximize their best years then let them go. The Cards are good at that but so are the Reds.

    The Reds have built a contender from a horrible roster just 4 years ago in 2009. uilt a productive farm system from the dregs in a little more than 5 years and resurrected a team from a decade of futility. To me that is remarkable and it took the right owner. Jocketty may get credot but to me...its all Castellini who demands a winner and will ok contracts and moves Lindner nor Schott ever would have.

  10. #69
    Member Beltway's Avatar
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    Re: Cardinals are luckiest team in baseball.

    Is Shelby Miller the king of luck? He retired 27 straight Rockies after giving up a single to start the game.

  11. #70
    Member MikeThierry's Avatar
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    Re: Cardinals are luckiest team in baseball.

    Quote Originally Posted by RedlegJake View Post
    Martinez sounds like Stephenson....and the Reds system is loaded with arms. Its at the positions that the Cards have a better system...but prospects can be fools gold. And the Reds aren' t exactly bereft of talent. Both teams look to be well supplied...who actually produces and how soon and how badly each team needs to fill holes will tell the story. I wouldn't look to either team to fall away or pull out of reach of the other over the next 3-4 years based on either team's farm system.
    Except that Martinez is one of the top prospects in baseball often compared to Pedro in his mechanics and is a better pitcher...

    I can also tell you right now that the Reds do not have someone like Oscar Taveras waiting in the wings. The Reds have proven though that they are a draft and development machine so I would expect them to get near the top in terms of farm rankings relatively quickly.
    Last edited by MikeThierry; 05-11-2013 at 01:42 AM.
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  12. #71
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    Re: Cardinals are luckiest team in baseball.

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeThierry View Post
    Except that Martinez is one of the top prospects in baseball often compared to Pedro in his mechanics and is a better pitcher...

    I can also tell you right now that the Reds do not have someone like Oscar Taveras waiting in the wings. The Reds have proven though that they are a draft and development machine so I would expect them to get near the top in terms of farm rankings relatively quickly.
    I wouldn't mike. They will stay compettitive to dominant on the major league level, but Walt jocketty doesn't much care about minor league players. I discussed this is in the off season with scrap irony and others. Walt drafts and trades, it is his m.o. look at gregarious. Right now Harvey and miller are doing well in the nl Roy race but I think Gregorious may come out on top. As of right the reds top pitcher is in single A and top hitting prospect is a single tool prospect strugglingling in triple A. It is his M.O. don't get me wrong reds fans, Walt is a great GM, but he will have his Mark Milder with you, its just a matter of time.

  13. #72
    Member MikeThierry's Avatar
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    Re: Cardinals are luckiest team in baseball.

    Quote Originally Posted by Salukifan2 View Post
    I wouldn't mike. They will stay compettitive to dominant on the major league level, but Walt jocketty doesn't much care about minor league players. I discussed this is in the off season with scrap irony and others. Walt drafts and trades, it is his m.o. look at gregarious. Right now Harvey and miller are doing well in the nl Roy race but I think Gregorious may come out on top. As of right the reds top pitcher is in single A and top hitting prospect is a single tool prospect strugglingling in triple A. It is his M.O. don't get me wrong reds fans, Walt is a great GM, but he will have his Mark Milder with you, its just a matter of time.
    To me, the scariest thing about Miller is that he hasn't shown his changeup, which is an out pitch for him. He's dominating players without exposing the rest of his arsenal to the rest of the league.
    “Our next home stand follows this road trip.”

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  14. #73
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    Re: Cardinals are luckiest team in baseball.

    Quote Originally Posted by Salukifan2 View Post
    I wouldn't mike. They will stay compettitive to dominant on the major league level, but Walt jocketty doesn't much care about minor league players. I discussed this is in the off season with scrap irony and others. Walt drafts and trades, it is his m.o. look at gregarious. Right now Harvey and miller are doing well in the nl Roy race but I think Gregorious may come out on top. As of right the reds top pitcher is in single A and top hitting prospect is a single tool prospect strugglingling in triple A. It is his M.O. don't get me wrong reds fans, Walt is a great GM, but he will have his Mark Milder with you, its just a matter of time.
    completely disagree with you. Walt hasn't built the Reds anything like he did in SL where he had a lot more money to work with. Cincy still doesn't have the draw or market area the Cards do nor as good media deals. Walt has been very farm friendly. Trading abundant prospects is smart yet the Reds also have a number of homegrown players. Gregorious was the key to landing Choo...that was a decision made by Towers more than anything. If Cozart had been their choice he'd have been the one gone. Getting Choo was the target not which SS prospect it took. Walt is a great GM because he can adapt his strategy to fit his teams finances and market. And yeah with Cast and Walt the Reds are repeating history...taking Cards management and retooling...just like when Howsam came.Cards and Reds have had symbiotic relationship since the days of the beer barons of the 1890s with Van der Ahe and Hermann.

  15. #74
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    Re: Cardinals are luckiest team in baseball.

    Quote Originally Posted by Salukifan2 View Post
    I wouldn't mike. They will stay compettitive to dominant on the major league level, but Walt jocketty doesn't much care about minor league players. I discussed this is in the off season with scrap irony and others. Walt drafts and trades, it is his m.o. look at gregarious. Right now Harvey and miller are doing well in the nl Roy race but I think Gregorious may come out on top. As of right the reds top pitcher is in single A and top hitting prospect is a single tool prospect strugglingling in triple A. It is his M.O. don't get me wrong reds fans, Walt is a great GM, but he will have his Mark Milder with you, its just a matter of time.
    History tells us that this tale your are telling is false. The facts simply don't back this up at all. Jocketty had a great record of developing talent in St. Louis and has continued that success in Cincinnati. Compare his record to any other GM's record of developing talent, and Jocketty will fair favorably.
    "Man, the pitch looks fast, even in slow motion." Thom Brennaman on Chapman's fastball.

  16. #75
    Moderator RedlegJake's Avatar
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    Re: Cardinals are luckiest team in baseball.

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeThierry View Post
    Except that Martinez is one of the top prospects in baseball often compared to Pedro in his mechanics and is a better pitcher...

    I can also tell you right now that the Reds do not have someone like Oscar Taveras waiting in the wings. The Reds have proven though that they are a draft and development machine so I would expect them to get near the top in terms of farm rankings relatively quickly.
    Stephenson is still younger and developing. He has all the talent of Martinez if he can stay healthy. Position wise the Cards system right now is poised where the Reds were a couple years before the influx of promotions and trades came. They'll be pushing vets ouf the door soon. Taveras is impressive but Bruce was no less so and has certainly turned out to be solid but not the next great superstar. I'll give the guy props when he completes a couple ML seasons with great numbers. Other than Hamilton abd Winker who is years away the Reds are position poor for star potential. I hope the deep pool of arm talent pans out because that is the Reds hope until a new classcan get going hopefully with a couple high ceiling hitters in it.


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