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Thread: If Toronto keeps losing.. Could the Reds see Bautista Time batting 4th??

  1. #16
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    Re: If Toronto keeps losing.. Could the Reds see Bautista Time batting 4th??

    Quote Originally Posted by kaldaniels View Post
    That's like saying based on Xavier Paul's one at-bat this year in which he hit a Grand Slam he should be an all-star. Talk about cherry-picking your data. One data point?

    Doug, surely you can acknowledge the Jays are in serious, serious, trouble.
    You have absolutely missed the point, and embarrassing so.

    Even if you assume the BJ's cannot make the playoffs this year, doesn't mean they are one and done.

    If the Reds fall out of the race doesn't mean we trade assets which are ours for many years.

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  3. #17
    Viva la Rolen kaldaniels's Avatar
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    Re: If Toronto keeps losing.. Could the Reds see Bautista Time batting 4th??

    Quote Originally Posted by PuffyPig View Post
    You have absolutely missed the point, and embarrassing so.

    Even if you assume the BJ's cannot make the playoffs this year, doesn't mean they are one and done.

    If the Reds fall out of the race doesn't mean we trade assets which are ours for many years.
    I'm not suggesting they have a fire sale nor trade Bautista. I'm just saying any rational person has to assume they will miss the playoffs this year. Make moves accordingly.

    I'd like you to respond back because I never suggested they trade assets or make moves that would hurt them in upcoming years. I simply was responding to Doug's - there is plenty of time - remark.

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    Re: If Toronto keeps losing.. Could the Reds see Bautista Time batting 4th??

    Quote Originally Posted by kaldaniels View Post
    I'm not suggesting they have a fire sale nor trade Bautista. I'm just saying any rational person has to assume they will miss the playoffs this year. Make moves accordingly.

    I'd like you to respond back because I never suggested they trade assets or make moves that would hurt them in upcoming years. I simply was responding to Doug's - there is plenty of time - remark.
    Like any GM, Toronto would trade any player if they thought it would benefit the team.

    But whether or not they fall out of the race or not, the chances of trading Bautisa remain largely the same.

    Falling out of the race is largely irrelevant.

  5. #19
    Viva la Rolen kaldaniels's Avatar
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    Re: If Toronto keeps losing.. Could the Reds see Bautista Time batting 4th??

    Quote Originally Posted by PuffyPig View Post
    Like any GM, Toronto would trade any player if they thought it would benefit the team.

    But whether or not they fall out of the race or not, the chances of trading Bautisa remain largely the same.

    Falling out of the race is largely irrelevant.
    We are talking about two different things then, and I fail to see why I embarrassingly missed the point. I wouldn't trade Bautista. But I would not have a pie in the sky mentality that all is well this year and there is plenty of time

    I think you believed I was in favor of a fire sale of some sorts and jumped all over me. That was not the case.

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    Re: If Toronto keeps losing.. Could the Reds see Bautista Time batting 4th??

    Quote Originally Posted by PuffyPig View Post
    I bet you would....
    Phillips is on the wrong side of 30 and is getting paid a very good salary. Bruce is a good player, but if the offer was good and the team was out of it I would move either one.

    Sometimes you trade a good player (even if under control for a few years) for multiple good prospects that will help you be good for years to come. I don't see how this is unreasonable. Plus it would free up some money to re-sign some of the pitchers due for big contracts. I'm not saying I would give either away as any kind of salary dump, but if the offer was good, sure I'd move either one if the team was out of it.

    Thanks for being condescending to me though. I appreciate it.

  7. #21
    Et tu, Brutus? Brutus's Avatar
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    Re: If Toronto keeps losing.. Could the Reds see Bautista Time batting 4th??

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    The offense has a combined .262 BABIP. That isn't going to last. When it does correct itself, the offense is going to pick up big time. Not that it will matter if the starting pitching doesn't drastically improve. What a mess that rotation is right now.
    The difference between a .262 BABIP and .290 right now is only about 18 additional hits, or barely .5 per game.

    That would account for close to half a run a game, but it's by far not their biggest problem.
    "No matter how good you are, you're going to lose one-third of your games. No matter how bad you are you're going to win one-third of your games. It's the other third that makes the difference." ~Tommy Lasorda

  8. #22
    The Future is Now Ghosts of 1990's Avatar
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    Re: If Toronto keeps losing.. Could the Reds see Bautista Time batting 4th??

    He's hurt like, all the time. Having to play the field won't help that.
    2009 Attendance Record: 3-5 2010 Attendance Record: 2-9
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    Re: If Toronto keeps losing.. Could the Reds see Bautista Time batting 4th??

    Quote Originally Posted by Ghosts of 1990 View Post
    He's hurt like, all the time. Having to play the field won't help that.
    He rarely DH's. He has only DH'd 4 times this year, 2 times last year, and 9 times in 2011.

    He is also not "hurt like, all the time." He had a wrist problem that caused him to miss much of last year (2 DL stints for the same issue that ended up requiring surgery) and did have a sore back for a few games this year. Yet the two years prior he played in 310 of 324 games.
    Last edited by scott91575; 05-05-2013 at 07:27 AM.

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    Re: If Toronto keeps losing.. Could the Reds see Bautista Time batting 4th??

    I think the only way the Jays trade Bautista is if Buehrle and Melky are stapled to him.
    "Reality tells us there are no guarantees. Except that some day Jon Lester will be on that list of 100-game winners." - Peter Gammons

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    Re: If Toronto keeps losing.. Could the Reds see Bautista Time batting 4th??

    Quote Originally Posted by Brutus View Post
    The difference between a .262 BABIP and .290 right now is only about 18 additional hits, or barely .5 per game.

    That would account for close to half a run a game, but it's by far not their biggest problem.
    Half a run per game is a huge difference. It would give us the best run differential in the league, and an expected record of 21-10.

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    Re: If Toronto keeps losing.. Could the Reds see Bautista Time batting 4th??

    Quote Originally Posted by NeilHamburger View Post
    Phillips is on the wrong side of 30 and is getting paid a very good salary. Bruce is a good player, but if the offer was good and the team was out of it I would move either one.

    Sometimes you trade a good player (even if under control for a few years) for multiple good prospects that will help you be good for years to come. I don't see how this is unreasonable. Plus it would free up some money to re-sign some of the pitchers due for big contracts. I'm not saying I would give either away as any kind of salary dump, but if the offer was good, sure I'd move either one if the team was out of it.

    Thanks for being condescending to me though. I appreciate it.
    The Reds are not trading good producing players for prospects right now. They are in a win mode even if they fall out of the race this year. That's not to say that they would not possibly make a baseball trade and trade producing player for different producing player but they are not, at this stage of their development, trade producing players for prospects.

  14. #27
    The Big Dog mth123's Avatar
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    Re: If Toronto keeps losing.. Could the Reds see Bautista Time batting 4th??

    Agreed PP. There have been cases when contending teams like The Twins, Tampa Bay and Oakland have dealt off higher priced vets to feed the pipeline, but that's usually when the team has a kid ready to take the job and replace the vet's production. After the season, I could see the Reds dealing an arm. But other than Cingrani and hopefully Hamilton, there really aren't any kids who can replace the Major League production. Those guys probably replace free agents to be Choo and Arroyo, so even in the off-season, a deal of vets for kids isn't real likely.
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

    Having better players makes "the right time" or "the big hit" happen a lot more often. PLUS PLUS

  15. #28
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    Re: If Toronto keeps losing.. Could the Reds see Bautista Time batting 4th??

    Quote Originally Posted by PuffyPig View Post
    Half a run per game is a huge difference. It would give us the best run differential in the league, and an expected record of 21-10.
    Sure, if they could stop giving back 5+ runs a game to their opponents, but if they can't do that it's barely a dent.
    "Reality tells us there are no guarantees. Except that some day Jon Lester will be on that list of 100-game winners." - Peter Gammons

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    Re: If Toronto keeps losing.. Could the Reds see Bautista Time batting 4th??

    Just for discussion purposes- what would it take? What would you be willing to do?

    I think something like Ludwick, Stephenson, Soto and one or two of Corcino/Winker/Y-Rod would start the conversation. (We would need Ludwick to be involved to make it remotely financially feasible). Would you do that if you're the Reds?

    Another possibility would be Chapman, Ludwick, Soto and Lutz. I'd do that deal in a minute.

    The good news is Bautista is only signed through 2015 (w option for 16) so he wouldn't necessarily bar us from extending one or two of Latos/Bailey/Cueto. He would obviously eliminate any possibility of extending Choo, however (which would be just fine in my book, especially if/when Hamilton starts figuring things out). In fact, Bautista will likely cost the same or less than Choo over the next several years, but having both in this years lineup would surely make us World Series favorites.
    Last edited by Benihana; 05-05-2013 at 10:41 AM.
    Go BLUE!!!

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    Re: If Toronto keeps losing.. Could the Reds see Bautista Time batting 4th??

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    It is May 4th and they are 11 back.

    The 1995 Mariners were 11.5 back on August 24th and made the playoffs.

    There is plenty of time.

    I agree with ya Doug.....but he said historically speaking.....so what he meant was that most teams this far out, even this early tend to not make the playoffs.....yes there are teams that buck that trend like the Mariners but the norm is they will not win the div. I have watched several of their games and they are a mess, a total mess......guys just look lost out there. They truly look exactly the opposite of the Reds, they don't appear to have fun and it appears they don't even like each others company......but that's from my recliner usually half asleep......!!!!


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