Turn Off Ads?
Page 1 of 5 12345 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 81

Thread: Rolen, Ludwick, and Hanigan

Hybrid View

  1. #1
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Posts
    13,224

    Rolen, Ludwick, and Hanigan

    Reds lost a great deal of experience, leadership, and veteran talent when Rolen left, and Ludwick and Hanigan got hurt. I see Ryan H is coming back soon, hopefully he will be healthy and hit better now.

    It's hard to say around here because of the huge amount of love for Reds prospects.

    But Cozart, Frazier, Mesoraco are very inexperienced players. I won't say that about Bruce. He is young chronologically, but he's experienced.

    Certainly the bench has a number of inexperienced players.

    I would like to see the Reds add some more veterans. I had suggested Scott Hairston.

    Less experienced players sometimes tend to be inconsistent IMO, they are learning the game.

    When times get tough, veteran leadership is important, and sometimes they are steadier. Has to be the right guys, not saying everyone would be additive. But that's my thought for the day.

  2. #2
    Start the Reactor! *BaseClogger*'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Midland, MI
    Posts
    6,411

    Re: Rolen, Ludwick, and Hanigan

    The bench is full of veterans--Izturis, Hannahan, Miller, and to some extent Paul have all been around the block. I don't see vet lovin' being an issue with this roster...
    "On-base percentage is great if you can score runs and do something with that on-base percentage," Baker said. "Clogging up the bases isn't that great to me."

  3. Likes:

    Cursh14 (05-08-2013)

  4. #3
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Posts
    13,224

    Re: Rolen, Ludwick, and Hanigan

    Quote Originally Posted by *BaseClogger* View Post
    The bench is full of veterans--Izturis, Hannahan, Miller, and to some extent Paul have all been around the block. I don't see vet lovin' being an issue with this roster...
    I disagree. Paul is not a veteran major league player, he's been mostly in the minors. Corky Miller has had a minor league career. These are not the guys I'm talking about.

    Hannahan and Izturis are veterans and I think they have done their job, but bench warmers can only add so much. Further, Derrick Robinson and Lutz are inexperienced and could be replaced by much more experienced hands who IMO would add more.

    The three guys carrying this team on offense are veterans. Choo and Phillips. And Votto is just great, whatever you call him.

    Look at the numbers. Look who is failing offensively so far.

    I knew this wouldn't be popular around here, for obvious reasons.

  5. #4
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    35,040

    Re: Rolen, Ludwick, and Hanigan

    I just don't understand what some old guy is supposed to do that is beyond what he can actually do on the field. It isn't some prospect love, it is just the confusion as to how a non-coach is going to make someone else better in a sport where you are isolated from everyone else on every play. You don't need someone to pass you the ball or set a pick or block a linebacker. In baseball, you go to the plate by yourself and the results are solely because of you and the pitcher. In the field you field the ball all by yourself.

  6. Likes:

    Redeyecat (05-08-2013), Revering4Blue (05-07-2013)

  7. #5
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Posts
    13,224

    Re: Rolen, Ludwick, and Hanigan

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    I just don't understand what some old guy is supposed to do that is beyond what he can actually do on the field. It isn't some prospect love, it is just the confusion as to how a non-coach is going to make someone else better in a sport where you are isolated from everyone else on every play. You don't need someone to pass you the ball or set a pick or block a linebacker. In baseball, you go to the plate by yourself and the results are solely because of you and the pitcher. In the field you field the ball all by yourself.
    You obviously don't value experience. I do.

    You view experienced players as "old guys." I don't.

    I'm not saying Reds should get bad players or washed up players. I just think veterans who can play can steady a team which is inconsistent.

    If you don't think players like Mesoraco are being pulled down by inexperience, I disagree.

    But, again, I expected that response so I'm not surprised.

  8. Likes:

    jimbo (05-07-2013)

  9. #6
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    35,040

    Re: Rolen, Ludwick, and Hanigan

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    You obviously don't value experience. I do.

    You view experienced players as "old guys." I don't.

    I'm not saying Reds should get bad players or washed up players. I just think veterans who can play can steady a team which is inconsistent.

    If you don't think players like Mesoraco are being pulled down by inexperience, I disagree.

    But, again, I expected that response so I'm not surprised.
    I am all for adding good players. But that is because they are good. Not because of some magic they may work with other players and change their output, because I don't believe that is going to happen. But to add good players because they can perform better than someone they are replacing, let's do that.

  10. #7
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Posts
    13,224

    Re: Rolen, Ludwick, and Hanigan

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    I am all for adding good players. But that is because they are good. Not because of some magic they may work with other players and change their output, because I don't believe that is going to happen. But to add good players because they can perform better than someone they are replacing, let's do that.
    I don't recall suggesting veterans have magic. Or anything like it. Maybe other "pro-veteran" posts do, but I didn't.

    I'm simply saying that good veteran players have a steadying influence and may not be subject to so many ups and downs as inexperienced players.

    When a team is as inconsistent as the Reds on offense, I think a few steadying hands are helpful.

    It's not merely about "intangibles." It's about steady play, having been through the wars, knowing the game. I think the Reds could use more of that right now. Again, on the field as well as off.

  11. #8
    It's showtime! RedEye's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Atlanta, GA
    Posts
    7,941

    Re: Rolen, Ludwick, and Hanigan

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    I'm simply saying that good veteran players have a steadying influence and may not be subject to so many ups and downs as inexperienced players.
    Isn't what you are saying also true of good players regardless of their experience? I have nothing against adding more veterans, mind you -- as long as they are also productive on the field according to the numbers. Give me first-half 2010 Scott Rolen, for instance. But not 2010 Orlando Cabrera.

    That said -- there are also relatively inexperienced players who can steady a team. Mike Trout, for instance. Or even Todd Frazier.
    "Iíll kind of have a foot on the back of my own butt. Thatís just how I do things.Ē -- Bryan Price, 10/22/2013

  12. #9
    Waitin til next year bucksfan2's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Cincinnati
    Posts
    10,122

    Re: Rolen, Ludwick, and Hanigan

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    I am all for adding good players. But that is because they are good. Not because of some magic they may work with other players and change their output, because I don't believe that is going to happen. But to add good players because they can perform better than someone they are replacing, let's do that.
    Joey Votto gave Scott Hatteburg a ton of credit for teaching him how to become a professional. You take a 25 year old, throw him onto a major league club that is traveling every 7 days, they are making more money than they ever dreamed of, and have to adapt to a level of failure they have never experienced. A little veteran experience goes along way. Baseball isn't played by a bunch of numbers rather a bunch of human beings.

    Don't discount leadership, because once you do your destined to fail.

  13. Likes:

    jimbo (05-07-2013), Old school 1983 (05-07-2013), RANDY IN INDY (05-08-2013), redsfanmia (05-07-2013)

  14. #10
    .377 in 1905 CySeymour's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Carmel, IN
    Posts
    2,112

    Re: Rolen, Ludwick, and Hanigan

    Quote Originally Posted by bucksfan2 View Post
    Joey Votto gave Scott Hatteburg a ton of credit for teaching him how to become a professional. You take a 25 year old, throw him onto a major league club that is traveling every 7 days, they are making more money than they ever dreamed of, and have to adapt to a level of failure they have never experienced. A little veteran experience goes along way. Baseball isn't played by a bunch of numbers rather a bunch of human beings.

    Don't discount leadership, because once you do your destined to fail.
    I have little doubt Joey Votto would have figured out how to be a professional with or without Scott Hatteburg.
    ...the 2-2 to Woodsen and here it comes...and it is swung on and missed! And Tom Browning has pitched a perfect game! Twenty-seven outs in a row, and he is being mobbed by his teammates, just to the thirdbase side of the mound.

  15. Likes:

    Cursh14 (05-08-2013)

  16. #11
    Member klw's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    New England
    Posts
    6,079

    Re: Rolen, Ludwick, and Hanigan

    Quote Originally Posted by bucksfan2 View Post
    Joey Votto gave Scott Hatteburg a ton of credit for teaching him how to become a professional. You take a 25 year old, throw him onto a major league club that is traveling every 7 days, they are making more money than they ever dreamed of, and have to adapt to a level of failure they have never experienced. A little veteran experience goes along way. Baseball isn't played by a bunch of numbers rather a bunch of human beings.

    Don't discount leadership, because once you do your destined to fail.
    Two great articles on Corky Miller talk about the way players view experience as a great quality to have around.

    http://nky.cincinnati.com/article/AB...T04/304240132/

    http://news.cincinnati.com/article/2...-lifetime-guy-

  17. #12
    Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2000
    Posts
    1,368

    Re: Rolen, Ludwick, and Hanigan

    Quote Originally Posted by bucksfan2 View Post
    Joey Votto gave Scott Hatteburg a ton of credit for teaching him how to become a professional. You take a 25 year old, throw him onto a major league club that is traveling every 7 days, they are making more money than they ever dreamed of, and have to adapt to a level of failure they have never experienced. A little veteran experience goes along way. Baseball isn't played by a bunch of numbers rather a bunch of human beings.

    Don't discount leadership, because once you do your destined to fail.
    Ask Mike Schmidt about the impact Pete Rose had on his career.

  18. #13
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    35,040

    Re: Rolen, Ludwick, and Hanigan

    Quote Originally Posted by bucksfan2 View Post
    Joey Votto gave Scott Hatteburg a ton of credit for teaching him how to become a professional. You take a 25 year old, throw him onto a major league club that is traveling every 7 days, they are making more money than they ever dreamed of, and have to adapt to a level of failure they have never experienced. A little veteran experience goes along way. Baseball isn't played by a bunch of numbers rather a bunch of human beings.

    Don't discount leadership, because once you do your destined to fail.
    Certainly, it matters a little bit. But the Reds have guys who have been around long enough that they already have "veteran" leaders. If Phillips, Votto, Bruce, Choo, Arroyo, Cueto, Broxton, Simon and the likes aren't veteran enough, who is going to be?

  19. Likes:

    BoxingRed (05-08-2013), Chip R (05-08-2013)

  20. #14
    Member NebraskaRed's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    Lincoln, NE
    Posts
    1,331

    Re: Rolen, Ludwick, and Hanigan

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    I just don't understand what some old guy is supposed to do that is beyond what he can actually do on the field. It isn't some prospect love, it is just the confusion as to how a non-coach is going to make someone else better in a sport where you are isolated from everyone else on every play. You don't need someone to pass you the ball or set a pick or block a linebacker. In baseball, you go to the plate by yourself and the results are solely because of you and the pitcher. In the field you field the ball all by yourself.
    So, you don't think that the player might be influenced by other people, and that that has an effect on his performance at the plate?

    What percentage of the day (or even what percentage of the game) is the player up at the plate?

    And we fundamentally disagree about baseball being a game where players are "isolated from everyone else on every play."

  21. #15
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    35,040

    Re: Rolen, Ludwick, and Hanigan

    Quote Originally Posted by NebraskaRed View Post
    So, you don't think that the player might be influenced by other people, and that that has an effect on his performance at the plate?

    What percentage of the day (or even what percentage of the game) is the player up at the plate?

    And we fundamentally disagree about baseball being a game where players are "isolated from everyone else on every play."
    I just don't believe that some player knows some magic secret that the coaches and manager don't already know and aren't talking to the player who needs help with already.

    On what plays is a player relying on someone else to do their job?


Turn Off Ads?

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Board Moderators may, at their discretion and judgment, delete and/or edit any messages that violate any of the following guidelines: 1. Explicit references to alleged illegal or unlawful acts. 2. Graphic sexual descriptions. 3. Racial or ethnic slurs. 4. Use of edgy language (including masked profanity). 5. Direct personal attacks, flames, fights, trolling, baiting, name-calling, general nuisance, excessive player criticism or anything along those lines. 6. Posting spam. 7. Each person may have only one user account. It is fine to be critical here - that's what this board is for. But let's not beat a subject or a player to death, please.

Thank you, and most importantly, enjoy yourselves!


RedsZone.com is a privately owned website and is not affiliated with the Cincinnati Reds or Major League Baseball


Contact us: Boss | GIK | BCubb2003 | dabvu2498 | Gallen5862 | LexRedsFan | Plus Plus | RedlegJake | redsfan1995 | The Operator | Tommyjohn25