Turn Off Ads?
Page 1 of 6 12345 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 81

Thread: Rolen, Ludwick, and Hanigan

  1. #1
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Posts
    13,723

    Rolen, Ludwick, and Hanigan

    Reds lost a great deal of experience, leadership, and veteran talent when Rolen left, and Ludwick and Hanigan got hurt. I see Ryan H is coming back soon, hopefully he will be healthy and hit better now.

    It's hard to say around here because of the huge amount of love for Reds prospects.

    But Cozart, Frazier, Mesoraco are very inexperienced players. I won't say that about Bruce. He is young chronologically, but he's experienced.

    Certainly the bench has a number of inexperienced players.

    I would like to see the Reds add some more veterans. I had suggested Scott Hairston.

    Less experienced players sometimes tend to be inconsistent IMO, they are learning the game.

    When times get tough, veteran leadership is important, and sometimes they are steadier. Has to be the right guys, not saying everyone would be additive. But that's my thought for the day.

  2. Turn Off Ads?
  3. #2
    Start the Reactor! *BaseClogger*'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Indianapolis
    Posts
    6,429

    Re: Rolen, Ludwick, and Hanigan

    The bench is full of veterans--Izturis, Hannahan, Miller, and to some extent Paul have all been around the block. I don't see vet lovin' being an issue with this roster...
    "On-base percentage is great if you can score runs and do something with that on-base percentage," Baker said. "Clogging up the bases isn't that great to me."

  4. Likes:

    Cursh14 (05-08-2013)

  5. #3
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Posts
    13,723

    Re: Rolen, Ludwick, and Hanigan

    Quote Originally Posted by *BaseClogger* View Post
    The bench is full of veterans--Izturis, Hannahan, Miller, and to some extent Paul have all been around the block. I don't see vet lovin' being an issue with this roster...
    I disagree. Paul is not a veteran major league player, he's been mostly in the minors. Corky Miller has had a minor league career. These are not the guys I'm talking about.

    Hannahan and Izturis are veterans and I think they have done their job, but bench warmers can only add so much. Further, Derrick Robinson and Lutz are inexperienced and could be replaced by much more experienced hands who IMO would add more.

    The three guys carrying this team on offense are veterans. Choo and Phillips. And Votto is just great, whatever you call him.

    Look at the numbers. Look who is failing offensively so far.

    I knew this wouldn't be popular around here, for obvious reasons.

  6. #4
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    35,441

    Re: Rolen, Ludwick, and Hanigan

    I just don't understand what some old guy is supposed to do that is beyond what he can actually do on the field. It isn't some prospect love, it is just the confusion as to how a non-coach is going to make someone else better in a sport where you are isolated from everyone else on every play. You don't need someone to pass you the ball or set a pick or block a linebacker. In baseball, you go to the plate by yourself and the results are solely because of you and the pitcher. In the field you field the ball all by yourself.

  7. Likes:

    Redeyecat (05-08-2013), Revering4Blue (05-07-2013)

  8. #5
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Posts
    13,723

    Re: Rolen, Ludwick, and Hanigan

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    I just don't understand what some old guy is supposed to do that is beyond what he can actually do on the field. It isn't some prospect love, it is just the confusion as to how a non-coach is going to make someone else better in a sport where you are isolated from everyone else on every play. You don't need someone to pass you the ball or set a pick or block a linebacker. In baseball, you go to the plate by yourself and the results are solely because of you and the pitcher. In the field you field the ball all by yourself.
    You obviously don't value experience. I do.

    You view experienced players as "old guys." I don't.

    I'm not saying Reds should get bad players or washed up players. I just think veterans who can play can steady a team which is inconsistent.

    If you don't think players like Mesoraco are being pulled down by inexperience, I disagree.

    But, again, I expected that response so I'm not surprised.

  9. Likes:

    jimbo (05-07-2013)

  10. #6
    Start the Reactor! *BaseClogger*'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Indianapolis
    Posts
    6,429

    Re: Rolen, Ludwick, and Hanigan

    Ideally, a team has a mix of young and veteran players to balance upside with consistency.

    When I look at the Reds roster, I see a team that has balance. Would I like the Reds to acquire a veteran outfielder to push Derrick Robinson off the roster? Absolutely. But it's early May. Gotta go out there and play with what we've got for right now...
    "On-base percentage is great if you can score runs and do something with that on-base percentage," Baker said. "Clogging up the bases isn't that great to me."

  11. #7
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Posts
    13,723

    Re: Rolen, Ludwick, and Hanigan

    Quote Originally Posted by *BaseClogger* View Post
    Ideally, a team has a mix of young and veteran players to balance upside with consistency.

    When I look at the Reds roster, I see a team that has balance. Would I like the Reds to acquire a veteran outfielder to push Derrick Robinson off the roster? Absolutely. But it's early May. Gotta go out there and play with what we've got for right now...
    Again, I disagree. This is a separate subject though.

    I don't believe the Reds "gotta go out there and play with what we've got for right now."

    I think the front office has been passive in its response to injuries. No way should they be functioning with a AA outfielder and a bench that has been so depleted by injury. The offense could be boosted by a single decent stop gap acquisition.

    As for balance, maybe with Hanigan and Ludwick. Certainly not now.

  12. #8
    Start the Reactor! *BaseClogger*'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Indianapolis
    Posts
    6,429

    Re: Rolen, Ludwick, and Hanigan

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    Again, I disagree. This is a separate subject though.

    I don't believe the Reds "gotta go out there and play with what we've got for right now."

    I think the front office has been passive in its response to injuries. No way should they be functioning with a AA outfielder and a bench that has been so depleted by injury. The offense could be boosted by a single decent stop gap acquisition.

    As for balance, maybe with Hanigan and Ludwick. Certainly not now.
    With Hanigan and Ludwick on the field, you've got veterans at every single position except the left side of the infield, where two 27 year-old second year players reside. Add to that a veteran heavy bench. This is an experienced team.

    With Hanigan and Ludwick out, the team is actually balanced out with a few younger players, but even one of the guys filling in, Corky Miller, is 38 years old and has 16 years worth of minor league baseball experience and is described as a "future manager"...
    "On-base percentage is great if you can score runs and do something with that on-base percentage," Baker said. "Clogging up the bases isn't that great to me."

  13. Likes:

    Redeyecat (05-08-2013), Revering4Blue (05-07-2013)

  14. #9
    Member NebraskaRed's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    Lincoln, NE
    Posts
    1,408

    Re: Rolen, Ludwick, and Hanigan

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    I just don't understand what some old guy is supposed to do that is beyond what he can actually do on the field. It isn't some prospect love, it is just the confusion as to how a non-coach is going to make someone else better in a sport where you are isolated from everyone else on every play. You don't need someone to pass you the ball or set a pick or block a linebacker. In baseball, you go to the plate by yourself and the results are solely because of you and the pitcher. In the field you field the ball all by yourself.
    So, you don't think that the player might be influenced by other people, and that that has an effect on his performance at the plate?

    What percentage of the day (or even what percentage of the game) is the player up at the plate?

    And we fundamentally disagree about baseball being a game where players are "isolated from everyone else on every play."

  15. #10
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    35,441

    Re: Rolen, Ludwick, and Hanigan

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    You obviously don't value experience. I do.

    You view experienced players as "old guys." I don't.

    I'm not saying Reds should get bad players or washed up players. I just think veterans who can play can steady a team which is inconsistent.

    If you don't think players like Mesoraco are being pulled down by inexperience, I disagree.

    But, again, I expected that response so I'm not surprised.
    I am all for adding good players. But that is because they are good. Not because of some magic they may work with other players and change their output, because I don't believe that is going to happen. But to add good players because they can perform better than someone they are replacing, let's do that.

  16. #11
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    35,441

    Re: Rolen, Ludwick, and Hanigan

    Quote Originally Posted by NebraskaRed View Post
    So, you don't think that the player might be influenced by other people, and that that has an effect on his performance at the plate?

    What percentage of the day (or even what percentage of the game) is the player up at the plate?

    And we fundamentally disagree about baseball being a game where players are "isolated from everyone else on every play."
    I just don't believe that some player knows some magic secret that the coaches and manager don't already know and aren't talking to the player who needs help with already.

    On what plays is a player relying on someone else to do their job?

  17. #12
    Member NebraskaRed's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    Lincoln, NE
    Posts
    1,408

    Re: Rolen, Ludwick, and Hanigan

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post

    On what plays is a player relying on someone else to do their job?
    I would say any play in which the ball goes from one person to another person. Those plays.

  18. #13
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Posts
    13,723

    Re: Rolen, Ludwick, and Hanigan

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    I am all for adding good players. But that is because they are good. Not because of some magic they may work with other players and change their output, because I don't believe that is going to happen. But to add good players because they can perform better than someone they are replacing, let's do that.
    I don't recall suggesting veterans have magic. Or anything like it. Maybe other "pro-veteran" posts do, but I didn't.

    I'm simply saying that good veteran players have a steadying influence and may not be subject to so many ups and downs as inexperienced players.

    When a team is as inconsistent as the Reds on offense, I think a few steadying hands are helpful.

    It's not merely about "intangibles." It's about steady play, having been through the wars, knowing the game. I think the Reds could use more of that right now. Again, on the field as well as off.

  19. #14
    .377 in 1905 CySeymour's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Carmel, IN
    Posts
    2,224

    Re: Rolen, Ludwick, and Hanigan

    Quote Originally Posted by NebraskaRed View Post
    I would say any play in which the ball goes from one person to another person. Those plays.
    I really have no doubt all of the Reds regulars know what to do when the ball is hit to them.
    ...the 2-2 to Woodsen and here it comes...and it is swung on and missed! And Tom Browning has pitched a perfect game! Twenty-seven outs in a row, and he is being mobbed by his teammates, just to the thirdbase side of the mound.

  20. #15
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    35,441

    Re: Rolen, Ludwick, and Hanigan

    Quote Originally Posted by NebraskaRed View Post
    I would say any play in which the ball goes from one person to another person. Those plays.
    Those plays are almost automatic. 2-4 out of 100 don't work out for most Major Leaguers.


Turn Off Ads?

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Board Moderators may, at their discretion and judgment, delete and/or edit any messages that violate any of the following guidelines: 1. Explicit references to alleged illegal or unlawful acts. 2. Graphic sexual descriptions. 3. Racial or ethnic slurs. 4. Use of edgy language (including masked profanity). 5. Direct personal attacks, flames, fights, trolling, baiting, name-calling, general nuisance, excessive player criticism or anything along those lines. 6. Posting spam. 7. Each person may have only one user account. It is fine to be critical here - that's what this board is for. But let's not beat a subject or a player to death, please.

Thank you, and most importantly, enjoy yourselves!


RedsZone.com is a privately owned website and is not affiliated with the Cincinnati Reds or Major League Baseball


Contact us: Boss | GIK | BCubb2003 | dabvu2498 | Gallen5862 | LexRedsFan | Plus Plus | RedlegJake | redsfan1995 | The Operator | Tommyjohn25