Rolen, Ludwick, and Hanigan

[Kc61]

Reds lost a great deal of experience, leadership, and veteran talent when Rolen left, and Ludwick and Hanigan got hurt. I see Ryan H is coming back soon, hopefully he will be healthy and hit better now.

It's hard to say around here because of the huge amount of love for Reds prospects.

But Cozart, Frazier, Mesoraco are very inexperienced players. I won't say that about Bruce. He is young chronologically, but he's experienced.

Certainly the bench has a number of inexperienced players.

I would like to see the Reds add some more veterans. I had suggested Scott Hairston.

Less experienced players sometimes tend to be inconsistent IMO, they are learning the game.

When times get tough, veteran leadership is important, and sometimes they are steadier. Has to be the right guys, not saying everyone would be additive. But that's my thought for the day.

[*BaseClogger*]

The bench is full of veterans--Izturis, Hannahan, Miller, and to some extent Paul have all been around the block. I don't see vet lovin' being an issue with this roster...

[Kc61]

The bench is full of veterans--Izturis, Hannahan, Miller, and to some extent Paul have all been around the block. I don't see vet lovin' being an issue with this roster...

I disagree. Paul is not a veteran major league player, he's been mostly in the minors. Corky Miller has had a minor league career. These are not the guys I'm talking about.

Hannahan and Izturis are veterans and I think they have done their job, but bench warmers can only add so much. Further, Derrick Robinson and Lutz are inexperienced and could be replaced by much more experienced hands who IMO would add more.

The three guys carrying this team on offense are veterans. Choo and Phillips. And Votto is just great, whatever you call him.

Look at the numbers. Look who is failing offensively so far.

I knew this wouldn't be popular around here, for obvious reasons.

[dougdirt]

I just don't understand what some old guy is supposed to do that is beyond what he can actually do on the field. It isn't some prospect love, it is just the confusion as to how a non-coach is going to make someone else better in a sport where you are isolated from everyone else on every play. You don't need someone to pass you the ball or set a pick or block a linebacker. In baseball, you go to the plate by yourself and the results are solely because of you and the pitcher. In the field you field the ball all by yourself.

[Kc61]

I just don't understand what some old guy is supposed to do that is beyond what he can actually do on the field. It isn't some prospect love, it is just the confusion as to how a non-coach is going to make someone else better in a sport where you are isolated from everyone else on every play. You don't need someone to pass you the ball or set a pick or block a linebacker. In baseball, you go to the plate by yourself and the results are solely because of you and the pitcher. In the field you field the ball all by yourself.

You obviously don't value experience. I do.

You view experienced players as "old guys." I don't.

I'm not saying Reds should get bad players or washed up players. I just think veterans who can play can steady a team which is inconsistent.

If you don't think players like Mesoraco are being pulled down by inexperience, I disagree.

But, again, I expected that response so I'm not surprised.

[dougdirt]

You obviously don't value experience. I do.

You view experienced players as "old guys." I don't.

I'm not saying Reds should get bad players or washed up players. I just think veterans who can play can steady a team which is inconsistent.

If you don't think players like Mesoraco are being pulled down by inexperience, I disagree.

But, again, I expected that response so I'm not surprised.

I am all for adding good players. But that is because they are good. Not because of some magic they may work with other players and change their output, because I don't believe that is going to happen. But to add good players because they can perform better than someone they are replacing, let's do that.

[Kc61]

I am all for adding good players. But that is because they are good. Not because of some magic they may work with other players and change their output, because I don't believe that is going to happen. But to add good players because they can perform better than someone they are replacing, let's do that.

I don't recall suggesting veterans have magic. Or anything like it. Maybe other "pro-veteran" posts do, but I didn't.

I'm simply saying that good veteran players have a steadying influence and may not be subject to so many ups and downs as inexperienced players.

When a team is as inconsistent as the Reds on offense, I think a few steadying hands are helpful.

It's not merely about "intangibles." It's about steady play, having been through the wars, knowing the game. I think the Reds could use more of that right now. Again, on the field as well as off.

[RedEye]

I'm simply saying that good veteran players have a steadying influence and may not be subject to so many ups and downs as inexperienced players.

Isn't what you are saying also true of good players regardless of their experience? I have nothing against adding more veterans, mind you -- as long as they are also productive on the field according to the numbers. Give me first-half 2010 Scott Rolen, for instance. But not 2010 Orlando Cabrera.

That said -- there are also relatively inexperienced players who can steady a team. Mike Trout, for instance. Or even Todd Frazier.

[bucksfan2]

I am all for adding good players. But that is because they are good. Not because of some magic they may work with other players and change their output, because I don't believe that is going to happen. But to add good players because they can perform better than someone they are replacing, let's do that.

Joey Votto gave Scott Hatteburg a ton of credit for teaching him how to become a professional. You take a 25 year old, throw him onto a major league club that is traveling every 7 days, they are making more money than they ever dreamed of, and have to adapt to a level of failure they have never experienced. A little veteran experience goes along way. Baseball isn't played by a bunch of numbers rather a bunch of human beings.

Don't discount leadership, because once you do your destined to fail.

[CySeymour]

Joey Votto gave Scott Hatteburg a ton of credit for teaching him how to become a professional. You take a 25 year old, throw him onto a major league club that is traveling every 7 days, they are making more money than they ever dreamed of, and have to adapt to a level of failure they have never experienced. A little veteran experience goes along way. Baseball isn't played by a bunch of numbers rather a bunch of human beings.

Don't discount leadership, because once you do your destined to fail.

I have little doubt Joey Votto would have figured out how to be a professional with or without Scott Hatteburg.

[klw]

Joey Votto gave Scott Hatteburg a ton of credit for teaching him how to become a professional. You take a 25 year old, throw him onto a major league club that is traveling every 7 days, they are making more money than they ever dreamed of, and have to adapt to a level of failure they have never experienced. A little veteran experience goes along way. Baseball isn't played by a bunch of numbers rather a bunch of human beings.

Don't discount leadership, because once you do your destined to fail.

Two great articles on Corky Miller talk about the way players view experience as a great quality to have around.

http://nky.cincinnati.com/article/AB...T04/304240132/

http://news.cincinnati.com/article/2...-lifetime-guy-

[osuceltic]

Joey Votto gave Scott Hatteburg a ton of credit for teaching him how to become a professional. You take a 25 year old, throw him onto a major league club that is traveling every 7 days, they are making more money than they ever dreamed of, and have to adapt to a level of failure they have never experienced. A little veteran experience goes along way. Baseball isn't played by a bunch of numbers rather a bunch of human beings.

Don't discount leadership, because once you do your destined to fail.

Ask Mike Schmidt about the impact Pete Rose had on his career.

[dougdirt]

Joey Votto gave Scott Hatteburg a ton of credit for teaching him how to become a professional. You take a 25 year old, throw him onto a major league club that is traveling every 7 days, they are making more money than they ever dreamed of, and have to adapt to a level of failure they have never experienced. A little veteran experience goes along way. Baseball isn't played by a bunch of numbers rather a bunch of human beings.

Don't discount leadership, because once you do your destined to fail.

Certainly, it matters a little bit. But the Reds have guys who have been around long enough that they already have "veteran" leaders. If Phillips, Votto, Bruce, Choo, Arroyo, Cueto, Broxton, Simon and the likes aren't veteran enough, who is going to be?

[NebraskaRed]

I just don't understand what some old guy is supposed to do that is beyond what he can actually do on the field. It isn't some prospect love, it is just the confusion as to how a non-coach is going to make someone else better in a sport where you are isolated from everyone else on every play. You don't need someone to pass you the ball or set a pick or block a linebacker. In baseball, you go to the plate by yourself and the results are solely because of you and the pitcher. In the field you field the ball all by yourself.

So, you don't think that the player might be influenced by other people, and that that has an effect on his performance at the plate?

What percentage of the day (or even what percentage of the game) is the player up at the plate?

And we fundamentally disagree about baseball being a game where players are "isolated from everyone else on every play."

[dougdirt]

So, you don't think that the player might be influenced by other people, and that that has an effect on his performance at the plate?

What percentage of the day (or even what percentage of the game) is the player up at the plate?

And we fundamentally disagree about baseball being a game where players are "isolated from everyone else on every play."

I just don't believe that some player knows some magic secret that the coaches and manager don't already know and aren't talking to the player who needs help with already.

On what plays is a player relying on someone else to do their job?