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Thread: Rolen, Ludwick, and Hanigan

  1. #31
    .377 in 1905 CySeymour's Avatar
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    Re: Rolen, Ludwick, and Hanigan

    Quote Originally Posted by 757690 View Post
    I have a lot of doubt about that.

    Votto was a lost soul early in his career, and has serious problems dealing with life as a major league player. He had to go on the DL to deal with "personal issues." Rumors about him being mentaly able to handle MLB life were swirling.

    Sure, he's fine now, and seems like a leader himself, but Votto, of all recent Reds players, is the one that I believe needed and benefited most from veteran leadership at the beginning of his career.
    The dude had just lost his dad. Votto has hit since the time he was called up to the big leagues. Listen, maybe someone like Rolen ended up being a good friend to Votto, good on them. But there is nothing that says Votto wouldn't have been just as great without Rolen.
    ...the 2-2 to Woodsen and here it comes...and it is swung on and missed! And Tom Browning has pitched a perfect game! Twenty-seven outs in a row, and he is being mobbed by his teammates, just to the thirdbase side of the mound.

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  4. #32
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    Re: Rolen, Ludwick, and Hanigan

    Quote Originally Posted by CySeymour View Post
    The dude had just lost his dad. Votto has hit since the time he was called up to the big leagues. Listen, maybe someone like Rolen ended up being a good friend to Votto, good on them. But there is nothing that says Votto wouldn't have been just as great without Rolen.
    Except Votto's own words.
    "Man, the pitch looks fast, even in slow motion." Thom Brennaman on Chapman's fastball.

  5. #33
    .377 in 1905 CySeymour's Avatar
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    Re: Rolen, Ludwick, and Hanigan

    Quote Originally Posted by 757690 View Post
    Except Votto's own words.
    Sometimes you have to take people's words with a grain of salt. Sure, Votto gives Rolen and Hatte credit, as he should. But that doesn't mean he wouldn't have been just fine without them.
    ...the 2-2 to Woodsen and here it comes...and it is swung on and missed! And Tom Browning has pitched a perfect game! Twenty-seven outs in a row, and he is being mobbed by his teammates, just to the thirdbase side of the mound.

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  7. #34
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    Re: Rolen, Ludwick, and Hanigan

    Quote Originally Posted by 757690 View Post
    I have a lot of doubt about that.

    Votto was a lost soul early in his career, and has serious problems dealing with life as a major league player. He had to go on the DL to deal with "personal issues." Rumors about him being mentaly able to handle MLB life were swirling.

    Sure, he's fine now, and seems like a leader himself, but Votto, of all recent Reds players, is the one that I believe needed and benefited most from veteran leadership at the beginning of his career.
    If you're referring to him dealing with depression and anxiety, he was quite open about all of that.

    I do agree, however, that he really benefited from veteran leadership (Hatteburg especially, but there are others)

  8. #35
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    Re: Rolen, Ludwick, and Hanigan

    And I would say Votto's also started to be a leader/mentor for others now (Chapman, for one).

  9. #36
    All Fired Up Revering4Blue's Avatar
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    Re: Rolen, Ludwick, and Hanigan

    Quote Originally Posted by Vottomatic View Post
    What I've learned so far from this thread is that Rolen's leadership and experience had nothing to do with the Reds success in 2010 and 2012.

    Carry on.
    All of which really paid off in 2011.

    Oops.

    Vets are an asset to a team when they actually produce on the field. Rolen was no exception.

    IMO, this "leadership" and "experience" thing is often overstated/valued.

    I'm with Doug on this one.
    "I have just been more than a little suspect of all the trades since the Willy (Scott Williamson) cash grab. That one left such a bad taste in my mouth that even a 1985 Dom Pérignon couldn't cleanse it." -- Creek14

  10. #37
    Member smith288's Avatar
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    Meh on "veteran leadership". It has its place but I think it's negligible on a team like the reds.

  11. #38
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    Re: Rolen, Ludwick, and Hanigan

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    I just don't understand what some old guy is supposed to do that is beyond what he can actually do on the field. It isn't some prospect love, it is just the confusion as to how a non-coach is going to make someone else better in a sport where you are isolated from everyone else on every play. You don't need someone to pass you the ball or set a pick or block a linebacker. In baseball, you go to the plate by yourself and the results are solely because of you and the pitcher. In the field you field the ball all by yourself.
    Although I disagree with the OP, I also disagree with your post here. I think you are being short sited, and you know it, just to prove a point. A full season of games lasts about 486 hours (3 hr/g).

    You and I both know that a baseball season is much more than just those 486 hours of game time. Vets can help with a lot, and effect other players a lot, especially the young ones.

    It can be things from:

    Maturity
    Game prep
    Handling the road trips
    Learning opposing pitchers
    Handling slumps
    Handling success (I think this has helped Bryce Harper)
    Just hearing from what other have experienced and learned and how they learned

    Although crappy vets tick me off like they do you, there is SOME value there. I say it with Dusty, he makes me so mad, probably every game, but he has to be doing something right, because the players like him, and he does win (even though many times it seems they when despite him).

    A little more open mindedness here may help.

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  13. #39
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    Re: Rolen, Ludwick, and Hanigan

    Quote Originally Posted by CySeymour View Post
    Sometimes you have to take people's words with a grain of salt. Sure, Votto gives Rolen and Hatte credit, as he should. But that doesn't mean he wouldn't have been just fine without them.
    Sometimes you have to realize when you've lost the argument.

  14. #40
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Rolen, Ludwick, and Hanigan

    Quote Originally Posted by TOBTTReds View Post
    Although I disagree with the OP, I also disagree with your post here. I think you are being short sited, and you know it, just to prove a point. A full season of games lasts about 486 hours (3 hr/g).

    You and I both know that a baseball season is much more than just those 486 hours of game time. Vets can help with a lot, and effect other players a lot, especially the young ones.

    It can be things from:

    Maturity
    Game prep
    Handling the road trips
    Learning opposing pitchers
    Handling slumps
    Handling success (I think this has helped Bryce Harper)
    Just hearing from what other have experienced and learned and how they learned

    Although crappy vets tick me off like they do you, there is SOME value there. I say it with Dusty, he makes me so mad, probably every game, but he has to be doing something right, because the players like him, and he does win (even though many times it seems they when despite him).

    A little more open mindedness here may help.
    If the team were full of rookies, sure. But if Brandon Phillips, Joey Votto, Choo and others aren't veteran enough with their MVP and All Star games, I just don't know what bringing in more guys simply to "teach" is going to do. If you want to bring in veterans because they are good players, I am all for it. But simply bringing them in because they can influence someone..... I just don't buy it. The Reds have one of the best hitters in the game on their team. The Reds have one of the hardest working and best defenders in the game on their team. If they aren't providing examples for other guys on how hard to work alongside with what the multitude of coaches are also doing, I just don't know what else can be done.

    The Reds have two hitting coaches and two pitching coaches. They have Dusty, Spier and Cairo as well. I just don't know what else someone is going to bring to the table in a non-on-the-field-talent level.
    Last edited by dougdirt; 05-07-2013 at 05:56 PM.

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  16. #41
    RaisorZone Raisor's Avatar
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    Re: Rolen, Ludwick, and Hanigan

    What leadership is missing? If Rolen was on the team to provide it how many more games will they have won?

    Furthermore who is being a bad teammate at this juncture ?
    "But I do know Joey's sister indirectly (or foster sister) and I have heard stories of Joey being into shopping, designer wear, fancy coffees, and pedicures."

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  18. #42
    .377 in 1905 CySeymour's Avatar
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    Re: Rolen, Ludwick, and Hanigan

    Quote Originally Posted by NebraskaRed View Post
    Sometimes you have to realize when you've lost the argument.
    When I feel I have, I will.
    ...the 2-2 to Woodsen and here it comes...and it is swung on and missed! And Tom Browning has pitched a perfect game! Twenty-seven outs in a row, and he is being mobbed by his teammates, just to the thirdbase side of the mound.

  19. #43
    Worst Behavior. reds44's Avatar
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    Re: Rolen, Ludwick, and Hanigan

    Me thinks you will see Rolen before the year is over. Not sure Frazier is the answer.
    Quote Originally Posted by PuffyPig View Post
    Let's face it, you mis-hit the bun with the mustard squirter, no one will really care.

  20. #44
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Rolen, Ludwick, and Hanigan

    Quote Originally Posted by reds44 View Post
    Me thinks you will see Rolen before the year is over. Not sure Frazier is the answer.
    If Rolen is the answer, I don't know what the question could possibly be.

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  22. #45
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    Re: Rolen, Ludwick, and Hanigan

    Quote Originally Posted by TOBTTReds View Post
    Although I disagree with the OP, I also disagree with your post here. I think you are being short sited, and you know it, just to prove a point. A full season of games lasts about 486 hours (3 hr/g).

    You and I both know that a baseball season is much more than just those 486 hours of game time. Vets can help with a lot, and effect other players a lot, especially the young ones.

    It can be things from:

    Maturity
    Game prep
    Handling the road trips
    Learning opposing pitchers
    Handling slumps
    Handling success (I think this has helped Bryce Harper)
    Just hearing from what other have experienced and learned and how they learned

    Although crappy vets tick me off like they do you, there is SOME value there. I say it with Dusty, he makes me so mad, probably every game, but he has to be doing something right, because the players like him, and he does win (even though many times it seems they when despite him).

    A little more open mindedness here may help.
    I nominate this for post of this thread.

    Good post.
    "I can't take this homerism anymore." - 10xWSChamps, August 11, 2010. A Cardinals fan having a problem with all the homerism on Redszone. Classic.

    "Man do I miss the days where were didn't need a calculator and an encyclopedia of baseball metrics to enjoy a baseball game ... - MikeS21" - 8/2/12 game thread


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