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Thread: The "age" of diva umpires

  1. #241
    Viva la Rolen kaldaniels's Avatar
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    Re: The "age" of diva umpires

    For those who enlarge the strike zone at the kids' level. (Which is sometimes understandable) Do you expect MLB umps to call the strike zone "by the book" at all times?

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    Re: The "age" of diva umpires

    Quote Originally Posted by kaldaniels View Post
    For those who enlarge the strike zone at the kids' level. (Which is sometimes understandable) Do you expect MLB umps to call the strike zone "by the book" at all times?
    Yes, I expect them to call the strike by the book as they interpret it. The most important thing though, is that they are consistent. If they call the same pitch, 1" outside, a strike in the first 3 innings, call it a strike the whole game. If they do that, then I don't have a problem with it. They are going to miss pitches occasionally though too. That's just the nature of umpiring.

    Bum

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    Re: The "age" of diva umpires

    Quote Originally Posted by Bumstead View Post
    Yes, I expect them to call the strike by the book as they interpret it. The most important thing though, is that they are consistent. If they call the same pitch, 1" outside, a strike in the first 3 innings, call it a strike the whole game. If they do that, then I don't have a problem with it. They are going to miss pitches occasionally though too. That's just the nature of umpiring.

    Bum
    A pitch 1" outside is a ball every time. There is zero room for interpretation.
    "This isnít stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

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    Re: The "age" of diva umpires

    Quote Originally Posted by jojo View Post
    A pitch 1" outside is a ball every time. There is zero room for interpretation.
    I agree that is your opinion. It's not a ball every time. It is a ball to the geeks that sit around and watch that little square on the TV or their computer and throw their hands up when the call isn't what the computer says it should be. On the other hand, I would guarantee you that, as long as the zone is reasonable, the players and managers (people actually involved in the game) would prefer that the strike was consistent the whole game regardless. The strike zone has never been set in stone, ever. Maybe on your little computer or maybe with that little box on your TV, but not in the game. The zone has varied marginally from umpire to umpire based on their interpretation of the zone. Now, has that zone gotten more consistent across the board over the last 20 years? Absolutely, but there is still some variability in each umpires zone. Truly, consistency is the most important thing in calling balls and strikes, not the little square on your computer screen or on the TV.

    Bum

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  8. #245
    .377 in 1905 CySeymour's Avatar
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    Re: The "age" of diva umpires

    Quote Originally Posted by Bumstead View Post
    I agree that is your opinion. It's not a ball every time. It is a ball to the geeks that sit around and watch that little square on the TV or their computer and throw their hands up when the call isn't what the computer says it should be. On the other hand, I would guarantee you that, as long as the zone is reasonable, the players and managers (people actually involved in the game) would prefer that the strike was consistent the whole game regardless. The strike zone has never been set in stone, ever. Maybe on your little computer or maybe with that little box on your TV, but not in the game. The zone has varied marginally from umpire to umpire based on their interpretation of the zone. Now, has that zone gotten more consistent across the board over the last 20 years? Absolutely, but there is still some variability in each umpires zone. Truly, consistency is the most important thing in calling balls and strikes, not the little square on your computer screen or on the TV.

    Bum
    It shouldn't matter what the players like. Sure, if they are calling it both ways then neither team will probably complain. But what Jo Jo was basically saying is that the rule book says if it's an inch outside, then it should be a ball. Not much room for different interpretations.
    ...the 2-2 to Woodsen and here it comes...and it is swung on and missed! And Tom Browning has pitched a perfect game! Twenty-seven outs in a row, and he is being mobbed by his teammates, just to the thirdbase side of the mound.

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    Re: The "age" of diva umpires

    Quote Originally Posted by Bumstead View Post
    I agree that is your opinion. It's not a ball every time. It is a ball to the geeks that sit around and watch that little square on the TV or their computer and throw their hands up when the call isn't what the computer says it should be. On the other hand, I would guarantee you that, as long as the zone is reasonable, the players and managers (people actually involved in the game) would prefer that the strike was consistent the whole game regardless. The strike zone has never been set in stone, ever. Maybe on your little computer or maybe with that little box on your TV, but not in the game. The zone has varied marginally from umpire to umpire based on their interpretation of the zone. Now, has that zone gotten more consistent across the board over the last 20 years? Absolutely, but there is still some variability in each umpires zone. Truly, consistency is the most important thing in calling balls and strikes, not the little square on your computer screen or on the TV.

    Bum
    Stop with the geek BS. The rule book defines that hypothetical pitch as a ball. The only way you can define that as a strike is if you hold the position that the umpire either blew the call or has the authority arbitrarily enforce rule book.
    "This isnít stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

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    Re: The "age" of diva umpires

    Quote Originally Posted by CySeymour View Post
    It shouldn't matter what the players like. Sure, if they are calling it both ways then neither team will probably complain. But what Jo Jo was basically saying is that the rule book says if it's an inch outside, then it should be a ball. Not much room for different interpretations.
    The game is played by the players and managed by the managers. The game is not played in the book. It is absolutely more important the zone is consistent, rather than exact. It will never be exact. Even the electronic eye isn't exact.

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    RANDY IN INDY (05-15-2013)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bumstead View Post
    I agree that is your opinion. It's not a ball every time. It is a ball to the geeks that sit around and watch that little square on the TV or their computer and throw their hands up when the call isn't what the computer says it should be. On the other hand, I would guarantee you that, as long as the zone is reasonable, the players and managers (people actually involved in the game) would prefer that the strike was consistent the whole game regardless. The strike zone has never been set in stone, ever. Maybe on your little computer or maybe with that little box on your TV, but not in the game. The zone has varied marginally from umpire to umpire based on their interpretation of the zone. Now, has that zone gotten more consistent across the board over the last 20 years? Absolutely, but there is still some variability in each umpires zone. Truly, consistency is the most important thing in calling balls and strikes, not the little square on your computer screen or on the TV.

    Bum
    Bumstead then called the rest of the Redszone posters "stupid nerds" and proceeded to stuff them each into their respective lockers.
    They don't think it be like it is, but it do.
    Quote Originally Posted by Larry Schuler View Post
    He has also taught me that even when the Reds win it is important to focus on the fact that they could have lost.

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  16. #249
    Member Wonderful Monds's Avatar
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    BTW, the reason the strike zone has never been consistent? Those human umpires are literally not as capable at defining a strike zone as those "little computers".
    They don't think it be like it is, but it do.
    Quote Originally Posted by Larry Schuler View Post
    He has also taught me that even when the Reds win it is important to focus on the fact that they could have lost.

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  18. #250
    .377 in 1905 CySeymour's Avatar
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    Re: The "age" of diva umpires

    Quote Originally Posted by Bumstead View Post
    The game is played by the players and managed by the managers. The game is not played in the book. It is absolutely more important the zone is consistent, rather than exact. It will never be exact. Even the electronic eye isn't exact.
    Then why even have rules? Gosh, why not just let the players make up rules as they go?
    ...the 2-2 to Woodsen and here it comes...and it is swung on and missed! And Tom Browning has pitched a perfect game! Twenty-seven outs in a row, and he is being mobbed by his teammates, just to the thirdbase side of the mound.

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    Five Tool Fool jojo's Avatar
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    Re: The "age" of diva umpires

    Quote Originally Posted by Bumstead View Post
    The game is played by the players and managed by the managers. The game is not played in the book. It is absolutely more important the zone is consistent, rather than exact. It will never be exact. Even the electronic eye isn't exact.
    The rule book defines a consistent zone. The only thing that makes it inconsisten is this notion that each ump can create his own unique version.
    "This isnít stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

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    Re: The "age" of diva umpires

    Quote Originally Posted by jojo View Post
    Stop with the geek BS. The rule book defines that hypothetical pitch as a ball. The only way you can define that as a strike is if you hold the position that the umpire either blew the call or has the authority arbitrarily enforce rule book.
    If it were BS, I would stop; it's not, so deal with it. It's a strike as soon as the umpire makes the signal with his right arm and says "strike." What's important is that he is consistent the entire game, not whether he calls the strike zone exactly by the book. In MLB, the umpire should clearly be calling the strike zone by his interpretation of the rule book. In the end though, consistency is more important to the people actually participating in the game. I agree that above the HS level there should be no reason to expand the strike zone beyond one's interpretation of the rule book.

    Bum

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    RANDY IN INDY (05-15-2013)

  23. #253
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bumstead View Post
    The game is played by the players and managed by the managers. The game is not played in the book. It is absolutely more important the zone is consistent, rather than exact. It will never be exact. Even the electronic eye isn't exact.
    Weren't you using logic to defend umpires who toss a player if they even blink about a call?

    If its in the book, it's in the book, right? Which is it?
    They don't think it be like it is, but it do.
    Quote Originally Posted by Larry Schuler View Post
    He has also taught me that even when the Reds win it is important to focus on the fact that they could have lost.

  24. #254
    Five Tool Fool jojo's Avatar
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    Re: The "age" of diva umpires

    Quote Originally Posted by Bumstead View Post
    If it were BS, I would stop; it's not, so deal with it. It's a strike as soon as the umpire makes the signal with his right arm and says "strike." What's important is that he......

    Bum
    Shenanigans.

    What's important is that the umpire enforces the rules.

    An ump that designs his own strikezone has zero credibility concerning admonishing player reactions to his calls. He's the ultimate hypocrit.
    "This isnít stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

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    Re: The "age" of diva umpires

    Quote Originally Posted by CySeymour View Post
    Then why even have rules? Gosh, why not just let the players make up rules as they go?
    I never once said that umpires should not call the game by the rule book. I said they should be consistent. If their interpretation of the strike zone (by the rule book) is slightly different than the little box on your computer, then so be it. Just be consistent. Like I said, I doubt you will ever find 2 umpires whose strike zones are identical. It's not because they don't know the rule, it's how they interpret the rule. If they are consistent, then so be it.

    I don't know why y'all get so worked up about this. It's never going to be exact, ever. Never, ever. Umpires in 2013 are really so much more consistent than 30 years ago, it's laughable that there is so much hand wringing about it.

    Bum

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