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Thread: The "age" of diva umpires

  1. #61
    Beer is good!! George Anderson's Avatar
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    Re: The "age" of diva umpires

    Quote Originally Posted by jojo View Post
    It's important to realize that in your comparison, MLB fined the metaphorical cop for inappropriately handling the situation on the field.
    Correct, and I am sure that had the supervisors of the cop knew that he used foul language towards me when I was pulled over he to would have been possibly reprimanded to. So to that I say if the people that benefit from a cops generosity or an umpires generosity in such a situation where they let a violation go but where later punished for a technicality in things such as a language they used, then I would no longer cut people breaks and in the cops case just write the ticket or in the umpires case just eject. If the offender is not going to appreciate the gesture the enforcer is making by cutting him a break then don't cut anymore breaks.
    "Boys, I'm one of those umpires that misses 'em every once in a while so if it's close, you'd better hit it." Cal Hubbard

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  3. #62
    Viva la Rolen kaldaniels's Avatar
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    Re: The "age" of diva umpires

    Fair to point out that David Price was also fined. Neither side handled things well I believe.

  4. #63
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    Re: The "age" of diva umpires

    Quote Originally Posted by kaldaniels View Post
    Fair to point out that David Price was also fined. Neither side handled things well I believe.
    Shocking... a take with no bias.

    Well played sir, well played

  5. #64
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    Re: The "age" of diva umpires

    This thread is going to be on thin ice. We had to close down the last thread about umpiring because of personal attacks, and won't be shy about doing the same in this one.

    Continue discussing but be civil. This will be the only warning.
    Quote Originally Posted by westofyou View Post
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  7. #65
    Five Tool Fool jojo's Avatar
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    Re: The "age" of diva umpires

    Quote Originally Posted by kaldaniels View Post
    Fair to point out that David Price was also fined. Neither side handled things well I believe.
    David Price was fined for his use of social media not his actions during that game. It's an important distinction because had Price not utilized social media, given the league's jutification for the fine, he would not have been fined for the incident.
    "This isnít stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

  8. #66
    Big Red Machine RedsBaron's Avatar
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    Re: The "age" of diva umpires

    Although great players such as Ruth and Cobb regularly had stormy encounters with umpires, in the last 75 years or so I can recall very, very few great players who did not have cordial relationships with umps. Even someone such as Ted Williams, who certainly had temper tantrums and less than harmonious dealings with the press ("The knights of the keyboard") got on well with umpires.
    I can recall Williams in "My Turn At Bat" writing about how he never tried to "show up" an umpire. He recalled one all star game when Jocko Conlan called him out on strikes. Williams wrote that he merely exclaimed "******, Jocko that's no strike" as he returned to the dugout. Nothing else was said until years later when he encountered Conlan at a spring training game (Conlan was a NL umpire). Conlan admitted to Williams that he missed the call and that it had always bothered him.
    Another recent thread here discussed the infamous Pete Rose-Dave Pallone dispute, but that incident occurred after Pete's retirement as a player. I cannot recall Rose having any problems with umpires when he was playing.
    My guess is that Bryce Harper will learn not to do anything that can set off some of the more sensitive members of the arbiters in blue.
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  9. #67
    breath westofyou's Avatar
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    Re: The "age" of diva umpires

    Quote Originally Posted by Plus Plus View Post
    This thread is going to be on thin ice. We had to close down the last thread about umpiring because of personal attacks, and won't be shy about doing the same in this one.

    Continue discussing but be civil. This will be the only warning.


    "It ain't nothin' till I call it." - Bill Klem

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  11. #68
    Five Tool Fool jojo's Avatar
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    Re: The "age" of diva umpires

    Quote Originally Posted by George Anderson View Post
    Correct, and I am sure that had the supervisors of the cop knew that he used foul language towards me when I was pulled over he to would have been possibly reprimanded to. So to that I say if the people that benefit from a cops generosity or an umpires generosity in such a situation where they let a violation go but where later punished for a technicality in things such as a language they used, then I would no longer cut people breaks and in the cops case just write the ticket or in the umpires case just eject. If the offender is not going to appreciate the gesture the enforcer is making by cutting him a break then don't cut anymore breaks.
    Was he fined for using profanity or for innapropriately escalating the situation? ESPN reported that Hallion was fined for his role in the confrontation (which frankly wouldn't have been a confrontation with the engagement of Hallion) while the players were fined for violating mlb social media policy. The analogy just isn't consistent with the situation it's trying to parallel.

    A better one would be a situation that happened in a local traffic court recently. The town department had taken to issuing tickets for "rolling stops" in residential areas with little traffic and for 1-2mph "over" infractions. Finally the judge took them to task for being pedantic to the detriment of the court and community.
    "This isnít stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

  12. #69
    Viva la Rolen kaldaniels's Avatar
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    Re: The "age" of diva umpires

    Quote Originally Posted by jojo View Post
    David Price was fined for his use of social media not his actions during that game. It's an important distinction because had Price not utilized social media, given the league's jutification for the fine, he would not have been fined for the incident.
    And that's fair to say. I think all parties involved were given token fines here just to let it be known that this type of situation will not be tolerated again. Regardless, I was not a fan of any of the actions of any of the key participants here. I even mentioned earlier that I tilt towards your end of the spectrum on this. However, I tend to cringe when I hear that players should be given a lot of rope when they act like babies, for lack of a better term.

  13. #70
    13 Belongs in Cooperstown Captain13's Avatar
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    Re: The "age" of diva umpires

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsBaron View Post
    Although great players such as Ruth and Cobb regularly had stormy encounters with umpires, in the last 75 years or so I can recall very, very few great players who did not have cordial relationships with umps. Even someone such as Ted Williams, who certainly had temper tantrums and less than harmonious dealings with the press ("The knights of the keyboard") got on well with umpires.
    I can recall Williams in "My Turn At Bat" writing about how he never tried to "show up" an umpire. He recalled one all star game when Jocko Conlan called him out on strikes. Williams wrote that he merely exclaimed "******, Jocko that's no strike" as he returned to the dugout. Nothing else was said until years later when he encountered Conlan at a spring training game (Conlan was a NL umpire). Conlan admitted to Williams that he missed the call and that it had always bothered him.
    Another recent thread here discussed the infamous Pete Rose-Dave Pallone dispute, but that incident occurred after Pete's retirement as a player. I cannot recall Rose having any problems with umpires when he was playing.
    My guess is that Bryce Harper will learn not to do anything that can set off some of the more sensitive members of the arbiters in blue.
    Bryce is young and young players will make mistakes; hopefully, he can learn from it. Someone else pointed out Votto's ejection a couple of years ago. I remember that game, he got tossed in the first and cost him either a hitting streak or getting on base streak that had reached 20+ games. He has become much more careful about what he says to umpires since.
    What if this is as good as it gets?

  14. #71
    Beer is good!! George Anderson's Avatar
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    Re: The "age" of diva umpires

    Quote Originally Posted by jojo View Post
    Was he fined for using profanity or for innapropriately escalating the situation? ESPN reported that Hallion was fined for his role in the confrontation while the players were fined for violating mlb social media policy. The analogy just isn't consistent with the situation it's trying to parallel.

    A better one would be a situation that happened in a local traffic court recently. The town department had taken to issuing tickets for "rolling stops" in residential areas with little traffic and for 1-2mph "over" infractions. Finally the judge took them to task for being pedantic to the detriment of the court and community.
    I was hoping more would come out on what exactly Hallion did wrong specifically but i have yet to find anything and likely we will never know.

    Keep in mind the rule book specifically states you cannot argue balls and strikes. If you want to change the rule book where arguing balls and strikes is allowed then by all means start a campaign. Till then the umpires are only doing their jobs.
    "Boys, I'm one of those umpires that misses 'em every once in a while so if it's close, you'd better hit it." Cal Hubbard

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  16. #72
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    Re: The "age" of diva umpires

    The umpires aren't divas. The fans are divas. And the players. And the posters here. And everyone else. The umpires are the only thing keeping the human race from being 100% diva.

    I never saw an umpire make the wrong move. And if he did, he has supervisors who would reprimand him. Which is irrelevant, because the umpire would be justified. And if any one said otherwise, I'd show them the rule book. And if the rule book said something different, it wouldn't matter. You don't know how close to all out anarchy each game gets so until you become an umpire, you shouldn't be talking about any of this.

    Civilians just don't understand. Cops, high level military, Wild West sheriffs; they have some idea. Their jobs are like an umpire's job minus the stakes and level of responsibility. An umpire wouldn't tell a barber how to cut hair. But he would give him a warning.
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  17. #73
    Churlish Johnny Footstool's Avatar
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    Re: The "age" of diva umpires

    The problem is, umpires should be above the fray (all authority figures should be). Their job responsibilities demand impartiality, and when they allow themselves to get emotional, they jeopardize that impartiality.

    My expectation is that an umpire should not get involved in a shouting match with a player, should not wave his arms and argue with a player, or otherwise engage a player on an emotional level. When they do, they step out of the role of respected, impartial judge.
    "I prefer books and movies where the conflict isn't of the extreme cannibal apocalypse variety I guess." Redsfaithful

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  19. #74
    Beer is good!! George Anderson's Avatar
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    Re: The "age" of diva umpires

    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny Footstool View Post
    The problem is, umpires should be above the fray (all authority figures should be). Their job responsibilities demand impartiality, and when they allow themselves to get emotional, they jeopardize that impartiality.

    My expectation is that an umpire should not get involved in a shouting match with a player, should not wave his arms and argue with a player, or otherwise engage a player on an emotional level. When they do, they step out of the role of respected, impartial judge.
    I totally agree with this. The link I posted with Terry Cooney in the Roger Clemens ejection was nauseating. Todays umpires compared to years past are so incredibly more professional and classy than years past its amazing and I think thats a good thing. In some situations however keep in mind you do have to shout because the crowd is so loud. You can't stand there and talk in a normal tone of voice because they will not be able to hear you and alot of times you have to talk over the shouting coach or player.
    "Boys, I'm one of those umpires that misses 'em every once in a while so if it's close, you'd better hit it." Cal Hubbard

  20. #75
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    Re: The "age" of diva umpires

    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny Footstool View Post
    The problem is, umpires should be above the fray (all authority figures should be). Their job responsibilities demand impartiality, and when they allow themselves to get emotional, they jeopardize that impartiality.

    My expectation is that an umpire should not get involved in a shouting match with a player, should not wave his arms and argue with a player, or otherwise engage a player on an emotional level. When they do, they step out of the role of respected, impartial judge.
    I don't think you see much of that. Doesn't mean the umpires don't have to throw the brats out of the game from time to time. I'm not sure there is enough information in either of these 2 cases to suggest as much regarding these umpires. There is a lot of inventing things that can't be seen or creating of conversations that nobody on here heard but there is very little to suggest any of what you said above happened in either instance.


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