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Thread: ESPN article on Choo

  1. #16
    Member Nasty_Boy's Avatar
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    Re: ESPN article on Choo

    Quote Originally Posted by Vottomatic View Post
    It's called the eyetest. I don't think Jay is as good as others do. There's no reason it needs to hold water. It's an opinion based on what I see. All the stat guru's will throw out what they see and simply go by their precious stats.

    If you've always been a Jay Bruce fan, then you probably overlook a lot of the negatives.

    I've never been a fan or non-fan. I just see a guy who K's a lot (48+ so far), and rarely makes things happen. And it's not based on simply this season. I've been consistent in my disappointment of Jay Bruce.

    But let's not derail this thread about Choo. Choo is everything I knew he would be. I've wanted to acquire him since 2009.
    As KC said, the trade proposal isn't that far fetched if that is what you want to see happen going forward. The problem I had was with the broad statements presented as fact, when it was just conjecture. I realize he has some negative aspects in his game, especially right now... But using a 35 game strikeout/power sample, along with statements like "he has never been clutch" "he always Ks in big situations" and calling that the eye test just doesn't ring true with me. I'm sorry to derail this thread... My initial post about the trade stands though... The "triple crown-threat" and best player early on in the 2012 season has 1 HR and has had his struggles too, along with the guy everybody wants from Miami. I'm concerned with Bruce and his struggles, but I'm not ready put a fork in him.
    I know a lot of people are talking about his on-base percentage (.308 in 2008), but I like to think more in terms of him his in-scoring position percentage. - Our Beloved Manager

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  3. #17
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    Re: ESPN article on Choo

    Such a nice sounding down to earth guy.....and he picks the agent who makes every player look like they are in it only for the money.
    If Choo tells Boras to give the Reds a chance with a smaller dollar/years based contract......Boras will talk him out of it....so no I do not think they have much of a chance to sign him. Can the Reds re-negotiate their TV deal in advance? That would help.

  4. #18
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    Re: ESPN article on Choo

    Where would this team be offensively w/out Choo? He's obviously not a GG CF but he simply doesn't fit long term.....because of the deals to Ludwick and Bruce. As for trading Bruce, have at it. But, other teams see the same flaws in his game as we do and I would be shocked if he brought anything very useful.

  5. #19
    Battle Toad Historian thatcoolguy_22's Avatar
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    Re: ESPN article on Choo

    Can someone explain the Ludwick contract to me again? How much is he owed next year? How much do the Reds owe next year (guarenteed contracts)? Is paying Choo 50MM over 3 seasons even possible budget wise? When is the new TV deal going to happen? I hate budget talks, but what do we know?

    I forgot to say, Go Choo! The Reds have to be making a tidy little profit just on merchandise sales in korea alone. That money should factor in on resigning Choo.
    "Last week I helped my friend stay put. It's a lot easier'n helpin' 'em move. I just went over to his house and made sure that he did not start to load **** into a truck."

  6. #20
    Member mdccclxix's Avatar
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    Re: ESPN article on Choo

    From what I read in the Redleg Annual (go buy it, 4 bucks was worth it), the Reds can start thinking about spending roughly 150 million per year based on the cash coming in. Not that they will, or that the numbers have been finalized from the TV side, etc.

    But, for example, the Votto contract was bearable, if not wise, because every team will have a lot more money and it's possible 25 per year will be the new 15 per year by 2020. (That's my own take, not the Annual that I recall.)

    Anyone know the luxury tax threshold now and if it's going up at some point after all the TV money arrives in 2-3 years? If it stays the same, we could be seeing a more NFL like model where most teams have a similar amount to spend.

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  8. #21
    .377 in 1905 CySeymour's Avatar
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    Re: ESPN article on Choo

    Quote Originally Posted by Vottomatic View Post
    I love Choo.

    As for his defense, he's playing out of position. He should be in RF.

    Trade JB, move Choo to RF, get a real CFer who can also hit (Fowler), and find a right handed power hitting LFer.
    Actually, this isn't too far fetched or unreasonable.

    But be very, very wary of Fowler. He's has a career .800 ops, but only .719 on the road.
    ...the 2-2 to Woodsen and here it comes...and it is swung on and missed! And Tom Browning has pitched a perfect game! Twenty-seven outs in a row, and he is being mobbed by his teammates, just to the thirdbase side of the mound.

  9. #22
    All work and no play..... Vottomatic's Avatar
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    Re: ESPN article on Choo

    Quote Originally Posted by mdccclxix View Post
    From what I read in the Redleg Annual (go buy it, 4 bucks was worth it), the Reds can start thinking about spending roughly 150 million per year based on the cash coming in. Not that they will, or that the numbers have been finalized from the TV side, etc.

    But, for example, the Votto contract was bearable, if not wise, because every team will have a lot more money and it's possible 25 per year will be the new 15 per year by 2020. (That's my own take, not the Annual that I recall.)

    Anyone know the luxury tax threshold now and if it's going up at some point after all the TV money arrives in 2-3 years? If it stays the same, we could be seeing a more NFL like model where most teams have a similar amount to spend.
    Beat me to it.

    Contracts locked in now may look cheap down the road.

    I wish Choo would fire Boras. I think the Reds could possibly get something done then.
    "I can't take this homerism anymore." - 10xWSChamps, August 11, 2010. A Cardinals fan having a problem with all the homerism on Redszone. Classic.

    "Man do I miss the days where were didn't need a calculator and an encyclopedia of baseball metrics to enjoy a baseball game ... - MikeS21" - 8/2/12 game thread

  10. #23
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    Re: ESPN article on Choo

    Quote Originally Posted by CySeymour View Post
    Actually, this isn't too far fetched or unreasonable.

    But be very, very wary of Fowler. He's has a career .800 ops, but only .719 on the road.
    I'm probably off on this one...........but GABP is a hitter's park too. Playing 81 games in GABP surely wouldn't hurt Fowler.........or would it?
    "I can't take this homerism anymore." - 10xWSChamps, August 11, 2010. A Cardinals fan having a problem with all the homerism on Redszone. Classic.

    "Man do I miss the days where were didn't need a calculator and an encyclopedia of baseball metrics to enjoy a baseball game ... - MikeS21" - 8/2/12 game thread

  11. #24
    Member RadfordVA's Avatar
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    Re: ESPN article on Choo

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    This is a very sensible suggestion, baseball wise. Financially, Choo will be more expensive than Bruce, and he's older, so the Reds probably won't do it.

    Also, despite what he says, I think Choo will leave at the end of the year for a huge contract some place. He's so good, it's hard to envision the big markets ignoring him.

    I'm guessing the Yankees will go very hard after Choo next season.
    Yeah it makes a lot of sense. Bruce and Choo will be somewhat similar in production and financially over next four years. So if money is the issue in signing Choo that will be the only way to free up that much. In dealing Bruce you are also able to bring back talent that you wouldn't get from letting Choo walk. Someone would give close to a Justin Upton package since they are similar and Bruce is cheaper and under more control. Only a draft pick comes back if Choo walks.

    Would be a shrewd move and I don't think the Reds would. It would be making the most out of your assets though.

  12. #25
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    Re: ESPN article on Choo

    The Reds need to find a way to resign Choo, and if he wants to be in Cincy I like the Reds chances. I know there are alot of players that will be arbitration eligible and free agents, but don't forget they are going to save near 20 million on the expiring contracts of Arroyo and Masset. Not saying it will be easy, but if both sides are interested, then I don't see a reason it won't happen.

  13. #26
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    Re: ESPN article on Choo

    Quote Originally Posted by Vottomatic View Post
    I'm probably off on this one...........but GABP is a hitter's park too. Playing 81 games in GABP surely wouldn't hurt Fowler.........or would it?
    hmm, good point. Gotta say, I have no clue lol
    ...the 2-2 to Woodsen and here it comes...and it is swung on and missed! And Tom Browning has pitched a perfect game! Twenty-seven outs in a row, and he is being mobbed by his teammates, just to the thirdbase side of the mound.

  14. #27
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    Re: ESPN article on Choo

    Quote Originally Posted by SidneySlicker View Post
    The Reds need to find a way to resign Choo, and if he wants to be in Cincy I like the Reds chances. I know there are alot of players that will be arbitration eligible and free agents, but don't forget they are going to save near 20 million on the expiring contracts of Arroyo and Masset. Not saying it will be easy, but if both sides are interested, then I don't see a reason it won't happen.
    I could see the Reds possibly having to trade Broxton and Bruce to keep payroll down, along with Arroyo and Masset's contracts expiring.

    Also to free up money to sign Choo.

    I really think we're on the verge of seeing some of the home grown boys start getting traded away for various payroll reasons. The starting pitching is next. Trying to decide who is worthy of keeping and who has to go but can net the most in trade.
    "I can't take this homerism anymore." - 10xWSChamps, August 11, 2010. A Cardinals fan having a problem with all the homerism on Redszone. Classic.

    "Man do I miss the days where were didn't need a calculator and an encyclopedia of baseball metrics to enjoy a baseball game ... - MikeS21" - 8/2/12 game thread

  15. #28
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    Re: ESPN article on Choo

    Whatever it takes to resign Choo is worth it. The guy is an on base machine, and a clutch hitter. I remember when the Reds would play their 6 games against the Indians, he used to murder us.

    The guy is worth every penny, and he seems to like it here. The only thing that scares me is Boras.

  16. #29
    Member Sea Ray's Avatar
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    Re: ESPN article on Choo

    The Reds need to be careful about giving long term contracts to players in their 30s. Just ask the Phillies, Dodgers and Angels how quickly some players age.

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  18. #30
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    Let's get two things straight.

    1 - Jay Bruce will never be traded. We locked him up to a bargain deal, and he's a .850 OPS with more upside yet. You can't replace that for prospects and you'll never get that kind of production for that amount of money.
    Back to back all star.
    Anyone who can't see the value of Jay Bruce is sorely lacking in baseball IQ.

    2 - Choo easily could be extended here without issue. His WAR really soars in this ballpark, so he'll be worth every penny.

    Ludwigs contract is really loaded for this year, next year is petty. It isn't by any means holding us back from anything. The new tv deal gives us leverage to do whatever we want financially. However, the prudent thing to do would be extend choo, put him in left, and put hamilton in center and bat him second...
    Spend the rest of the money on pitching extensions (Homer, Chapman) and look to upgrade SS and get ready for another extended Window through the 2015 All Star game! Reds fans will continue to come to the park in droves!!

    Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk 2
    I think that in a year or two, one of these guys - Frazier, Dorn, Valaika, Cumberland, Stubbs - will be ready to replace Dunn. They won't hit as many home runs as Dunn, but they should have similar OPS. - 757690, July 22, 2008

    Alonso will be playing 1B for the REDS and batting 4th one year from today. - Kingspoint, July 9, 2009


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