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Thread: ESPN article on Choo

  1. #61
    Member Nasty_Boy's Avatar
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    Re: ESPN article on Choo

    Quote Originally Posted by Vottomatic View Post
    Because they're my opinions. I've never stated anything as fact. I've stated them as my opinions.

    Since when did opinions have to be backed up by stats?

    I live my life often going by gut feelings. And I've learned to trust my gut feelings because they turn out right more often than not.
    Couldn't disagree more... That is not how it is being portrayed.
    I know a lot of people are talking about his on-base percentage (.308 in 2008), but I like to think more in terms of him his in-scoring position percentage. - Our Beloved Manager

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  3. #62
    Viva la Rolen kaldaniels's Avatar
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    Re: ESPN article on Choo

    Quote Originally Posted by Vottomatic View Post
    Because they're my opinions. I've never stated anything as fact. I've stated them as my opinions.

    Since when did opinions have to be backed up by stats?

    I live my life often going by gut feelings. And I've learned to trust my gut feelings because they turn out right more often than not.
    As Stephen Colbert says, the gut has more nerve endings than any organ in the body, so that's why he follows his gut.

    Of course books disagree with that...

  4. #63
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    Re: ESPN article on Choo

    I greatly enjoyed reading that article on Choo. Thank you for posting it!

    Don't trade Bruce.
    There are only two seasons - Winter and Baseball.

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  6. #64
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    Re: ESPN article on Choo

    Quote Originally Posted by Homer Bailey View Post
    I'll take it as a compliment that you think I memorized that stat. It's actually pretty easy look up whether or not your eyes are telling you the truth.

    But if you want to deny a cold, hard, indisputable fact and go with what your "eyes have told you", then I guess this narrative will just continue to live on.
    So in a discussion of Bruce where Vottomatic has laid out the case for several pages...and I weigh in, in agreement, and also state that stats don't tell all the story...you want me to THEN cite stats, so you can cite counter-stats, and we can get into a stat war.

    I don't buy into the premise -- that stats can tell the story of Jay Bruce -- and by citing stats I'd just be furthering the premise.

    I didn't just fall off the turnip truck.

  7. #65
    Titanic Struggles Caveat Emperor's Avatar
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    Re: ESPN article on Choo

    Is there a RedsZone skin I can use that replaces "Jay Bruce" with "Adam Dunn" and replaces some of the poster names with SteelSD and FallsCityBeer -- I could use a trip down memory lane.

    On the subject of Shin-Soo Choo, signing him to play LF and bringing up (a hopefully ship-righted offensively) Billy Hamilton to play CF as your #1 and #2 hitters seems like an awfully keen idea -- especially if you think you're going to lose 1 or both of either Homer Bailey or Mat Latos to FA anyway.
    Championships Matter.
    23 Years and Counting...

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  9. #66
    I'm gettin paper Homer Bailey's Avatar
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    Re: ESPN article on Choo

    Quote Originally Posted by redssince75 View Post
    So in a discussion of Bruce where Vottomatic has laid out the case for several pages...and I weigh in, in agreement, and also state that stats don't tell all the story...you want me to THEN cite stats, so you can cite counter-stats, and we can get into a stat war.

    I don't buy into the premise -- that stats can tell the story of Jay Bruce -- and by citing stats I'd just be furthering the premise.

    I didn't just fall off the turnip truck.
    This goes back to what Nasty Boy is saying. You're just choosing to ignore stats and agree with statements that just aren't true.

    An opinion reads like this:

    "I don't think Jay Bruce is going to be a clutch hitter going forward."

    That is an opinion. Totally entitled to that. You can support that in many different ways, and I would have a hard time disproving that, because it's an opinion.

    This is not an opinion:

    "Jay Bruce lives off one hot streak, and is an offensive liability for the rest of the season" or "Jay Bruce is not a clutch hitter."

    Those are just untrue statements. And can be proven out by facts.

    If you're of the opinion that Jay Bruce is going to suck going forward, and that the Reds should trade him, while I can disagree with that statement, I can at least respect that as an opinion.

    If you tell me that he has sucked, and is not a clutch hitter, then I'm going to point out the facts as to why the statement that was made was untrue.

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  11. #67
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    Re: ESPN article on Choo

    Quote Originally Posted by Homer Bailey View Post
    This goes back to what Nasty Boy is saying. You're just choosing to ignore stats and agree with statements that just aren't true.

    An opinion reads like this:

    "I don't think Jay Bruce is going to be a clutch hitter going forward."

    That is an opinion. Totally entitled to that. You can support that in many different ways, and I would have a hard time disproving that, because it's an opinion.

    This is not an opinion:

    "Jay Bruce lives off one hot streak, and is an offensive liability for the rest of the season" or "Jay Bruce is not a clutch hitter."

    Those are just untrue statements. And can be proven out by facts.

    If you're of the opinion that Jay Bruce is going to suck going forward, and that the Reds should trade him, while I can disagree with that statement, I can at least respect that as an opinion.

    If you tell me that he has sucked, and is not a clutch hitter, then I'm going to point out the facts as to why the statement that was made was untrue.
    This statement, a mixture of fact and opinion, is really all I need to know/say.

    I have watched Jay Bruce wave at far too many breaking balls in the dirt, strike out more than I can stomach, and go through weeks looking completely cluecless at the plate, than I want out of a Reds RF.

  12. #68
    I don't want to grow up Red Raindog's Avatar
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    Re: ESPN article on Choo

    Quote Originally Posted by MrRedLegger View Post
    I greatly enjoyed reading that article on Choo. Thank you for posting it!

    Don't trade Bruce.
    Thanks -- I post it and go play golf to come and find it becomes a Bruce thread --
    The older I get - the better I was

    and yes - I hate the Cardinals (Reds fan since 1958)

  13. #69
    .377 in 1905 CySeymour's Avatar
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    Re: ESPN article on Choo

    This thread makes my head spin
    ...the 2-2 to Woodsen and here it comes...and it is swung on and missed! And Tom Browning has pitched a perfect game! Twenty-seven outs in a row, and he is being mobbed by his teammates, just to the thirdbase side of the mound.

  14. #70
    Member 757690's Avatar
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    Re: ESPN article on Choo

    Concerning Choo's defense:

    It definitley appears that he's not comfortable in CF and isn't making ll the plays an average CF would make.

    But right now, can anyone point to a game that was lost because of Choo's defense?
    "Man, the pitch looks fast, even in slow motion." Thom Brennaman on Chapman's fastball.

  15. #71
    .377 in 1905 CySeymour's Avatar
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    Re: ESPN article on Choo

    Quote Originally Posted by 757690 View Post
    Concerning Choo's defense:

    It definitley appears that he's not comfortable in CF and isn't making ll the plays an average CF would make.

    But right now, can anyone point to a game that was lost because of Choo's defense?
    Not sure if Choo made a mistake or anything, but it could be a game or two where him not getting to a ball allowed runs to score or to eventually score.
    ...the 2-2 to Woodsen and here it comes...and it is swung on and missed! And Tom Browning has pitched a perfect game! Twenty-seven outs in a row, and he is being mobbed by his teammates, just to the thirdbase side of the mound.

  16. #72
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    Re: ESPN article on Choo

    Quote Originally Posted by CySeymour View Post
    Not sure if Choo made a mistake or anything, but it could be a game or two where him not getting to a ball allowed runs to score or to eventually score.
    His poor defense has definitely given up runs. But it seems like the Reds have won those games. Not making a statement, just asking if anyone can remember a game in which Choo's defense cost the Reds a W?
    "Man, the pitch looks fast, even in slow motion." Thom Brennaman on Chapman's fastball.


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