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Thread: ESPN article on Choo

  1. #31
    Member Sea Ray's Avatar
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    Re: ESPN article on Choo

    Quote Originally Posted by BLEEDS View Post
    Let's get two things straight.

    Ludwigs contract is really loaded for this year, next year is petty.
    I'm not so sure how you come to that conclusion. According to Cot's:

    2 years/$15M (2013-14), plus 2015 option
    re-signed by Cincinnati as a free agent 12/10/12
    $2M signing bonus
    13:$1M, 14:$7.5M, 15:$9M mutual option ($4.5M buyout)
    buyout is deferred without interest
    By my math, that tells me $3 mill for this year and assuming a buyout in 2015, $12mill next year

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  3. #32
    Moderator RedlegJake's Avatar
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    Re: ESPN article on Choo

    The idea someone thinks Bruce would have no trade value stuns me....

    Trading Bruce might be ok but only if they re-sign Choo. Even then I'd hope the trade upgraded 3b SS or added high ceiling young arms. He is young cheap and under control with stellar defense and a bat that can carry an offense when hot.

    Choo is simply one of the top dozen hitters in the game given his overall line and has more value than Bruce if theyq cancnot afford both.

  4. #33
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    Re: ESPN article on Choo

    Quote Originally Posted by Vottomatic View Post
    I'm probably off on this one...........but GABP is a hitter's park too. Playing 81 games in GABP surely wouldn't hurt Fowler.........or would it?
    GABP is a great HR park but contrary to popular belief it is NOT a good hitters park. The relatively short distances to the OF walls will create a high number of HRs, but the short walls also create a smaller OF surface meaning less ground to cover for outfielders and less space for hits to fall in. Over the past 5 years GABP is well above average in HRs, but average to below average in hits, doubles and triples.

    Coors on the other hand is a pitchers nightmare. Everybody talks about the thin air there which is why they are at the top of the charts in HRs given up. The thing that gets underplayed is the stadium dimension are huge and it has far and away the largest OF playing surface of any stadium in the majors. More space means more room for hits to fall in, which is why in the last 5 years in ranks #1 in hits allowed, #2 in doubles and #1 in triples on top of all the HR issues.

    Dexter Fowler 3 year road slash is .335/.366/.701. Count me in with the not worth the price crowd.

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  6. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sea Ray View Post
    I'm not so sure how you come to that conclusion. According to Cot's:



    By my math, that tells me $3 mill for this year and assuming a buyout in 2015, $12mill next year
    Yeah I had my years wrong.
    It's really loaded for 2014...
    It's basically 2 years $15m with 4.5 deferred.
    He's on the books for 7.5m in 2014 regardless. He'll only be here in 2015 if he is all start caliber in 2014.
    Then it is essentially 3 years 19.5m



    Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk 2
    I think that in a year or two, one of these guys - Frazier, Dorn, Valaika, Cumberland, Stubbs - will be ready to replace Dunn. They won't hit as many home runs as Dunn, but they should have similar OPS. - 757690, July 22, 2008

    Alonso will be playing 1B for the REDS and batting 4th one year from today. - Kingspoint, July 9, 2009

  7. #35
    All work and no play..... Vottomatic's Avatar
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    Re: ESPN article on Choo

    Quote Originally Posted by Sea Ray View Post
    I'm not so sure how you come to that conclusion. According to Cot's:



    By my math, that tells me $3 mill for this year and assuming a buyout in 2015, $12mill next year
    I'd use this link: http://www.baseball-reference.com/te...salaries.shtml

    Ludwick
    2013 - $2M
    2014 - $8.5M
    2015 - $4.5M
    "I can't take this homerism anymore." - 10xWSChamps, August 11, 2010. A Cardinals fan having a problem with all the homerism on Redszone. Classic.

    "Man do I miss the days where were didn't need a calculator and an encyclopedia of baseball metrics to enjoy a baseball game ... - MikeS21" - 8/2/12 game thread

  8. #36
    I'm gettin paper Homer Bailey's Avatar
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    Re: ESPN article on Choo

    Quote Originally Posted by Vottomatic View Post
    It's called the eyetest. I don't think Jay is as good as others do. There's no reason it needs to hold water. It's an opinion based on what I see. All the stat guru's will throw out what they see and simply go by their precious stats.
    Ok. So the stat guys will go off what actually has happened, and you will use your eyes to determine what you think you've seen, and completely ignore what has actually happened.

    Got it!

  9. #37
    Viva la Rolen kaldaniels's Avatar
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    Re: ESPN article on Choo

    Fay just tweeted to not rule out the Reds finding money for Choo. He never says stuff like that.

    Actually, that probably means Choo is a goner.

  10. #38
    All work and no play..... Vottomatic's Avatar
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    Re: ESPN article on Choo

    Quote Originally Posted by Homer Bailey View Post
    Ok. So the stat guys will go off what actually has happened, and you will use your eyes to determine what you think you've seen, and completely ignore what has actually happened.

    Got it!
    I'm doing pretty well so far.

    1. Told family members back when Votto and Bruce were rookies to buy Votto gear because he'd be the better player.
    2. Been wanting to acquire Choo since about 2009. Repeatedly posted trade ideas to get him the last 3 or 4 years.

    ......and so many other things I've been 1000% correct on that I don't have time to mention. (making fun of myself for those who don't get it)

    Ignoring the eyetest is not very smart.
    "I can't take this homerism anymore." - 10xWSChamps, August 11, 2010. A Cardinals fan having a problem with all the homerism on Redszone. Classic.

    "Man do I miss the days where were didn't need a calculator and an encyclopedia of baseball metrics to enjoy a baseball game ... - MikeS21" - 8/2/12 game thread

  11. #39
    All work and no play..... Vottomatic's Avatar
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    Re: ESPN article on Choo

    Quote Originally Posted by BLEEDS View Post
    1 - Jay Bruce will never be traded. We locked him up to a bargain deal, and he's a .850 OPS with more upside yet. You can't replace that for prospects and you'll never get that kind of production for that amount of money.
    Back to back all star.
    Anyone who can't see the value of Jay Bruce is sorely lacking in baseball IQ.
    Interesting. I heard the opposite and that he is a candidate to be traded possibly next offseason.
    "I can't take this homerism anymore." - 10xWSChamps, August 11, 2010. A Cardinals fan having a problem with all the homerism on Redszone. Classic.

    "Man do I miss the days where were didn't need a calculator and an encyclopedia of baseball metrics to enjoy a baseball game ... - MikeS21" - 8/2/12 game thread

  12. #40
    I'm gettin paper Homer Bailey's Avatar
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    Re: ESPN article on Choo

    Quote Originally Posted by Vottomatic View Post
    I'm doing pretty well so far.

    1. Told family members back when Votto and Bruce were rookies to buy Votto gear because he'd be the better player.
    2. Been wanting to acquire Choo since about 2009. Repeatedly posted trade ideas to get him the last 3 or 4 years.

    ......and so many other things I've been 1000% correct on that I don't have time to mention. (making fun of myself for those who don't get it)

    Ignoring the eyetest is not very smart.
    Questions:

    Would you be saying the same thing if Bruce had a .900 OPS so far this year?

    On this date last year, Bruce had an OPS over 1.000. Were you saying it then?

  13. #41
    All work and no play..... Vottomatic's Avatar
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    Re: ESPN article on Choo

    Quote Originally Posted by Homer Bailey View Post
    Questions:

    Would you be saying the same thing if Bruce had a .900 OPS so far this year?

    On this date last year, Bruce had an OPS over 1.000. Were you saying it then?
    I've never been a big fan of Bruce.

    For me, he lives off one hot streak a year and is a liability offensively the rest of the season. Been that way since he came up. And he may be getting worse.

    My opinions are of his game. He seems like a great guy and I wish more than anything he could put it all together. I just have seen the same problems for the past 4 years.
    "I can't take this homerism anymore." - 10xWSChamps, August 11, 2010. A Cardinals fan having a problem with all the homerism on Redszone. Classic.

    "Man do I miss the days where were didn't need a calculator and an encyclopedia of baseball metrics to enjoy a baseball game ... - MikeS21" - 8/2/12 game thread

  14. #42
    .377 in 1905 CySeymour's Avatar
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    Re: ESPN article on Choo

    Quote Originally Posted by Vottomatic View Post
    Interesting. I heard the opposite and that he is a candidate to be traded possibly next offseason.
    From what source?
    ...the 2-2 to Woodsen and here it comes...and it is swung on and missed! And Tom Browning has pitched a perfect game! Twenty-seven outs in a row, and he is being mobbed by his teammates, just to the thirdbase side of the mound.

  15. #43
    I'm gettin paper Homer Bailey's Avatar
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    Re: ESPN article on Choo

    Quote Originally Posted by Vottomatic View Post
    I've never been a big fan of Bruce.

    For me, he lives off one hot streak a year and is a liability offensively the rest of the season. Been that way since he came up. And he may be getting worse.

    My opinions are of his game. He seems like a great guy and I wish more than anything he could put it all together. I just have seen the same problems for the past 4 years.
    I'll just assume that your answers to the two questions you did not answer were no then.

  16. #44
    All work and no play..... Vottomatic's Avatar
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    Re: ESPN article on Choo

    Quote Originally Posted by Homer Bailey View Post
    I'll just assume that your answers to the two questions you did not answer were no then.
    You do what ever makes you happy.
    "I can't take this homerism anymore." - 10xWSChamps, August 11, 2010. A Cardinals fan having a problem with all the homerism on Redszone. Classic.

    "Man do I miss the days where were didn't need a calculator and an encyclopedia of baseball metrics to enjoy a baseball game ... - MikeS21" - 8/2/12 game thread

  17. #45
    Member Nasty_Boy's Avatar
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    Re: ESPN article on Choo

    Quote Originally Posted by Vottomatic View Post
    I've never been a big fan of Bruce.

    For me, he lives off one hot streak a year and is a liability offensively the rest of the season. Been that way since he came up. And he may be getting worse.

    My opinions are of his game. He seems like a great guy and I wish more than anything he could put it all together. I just have seen the same problems for the past 4 years.
    Once again, you are taking opinions and stating them as facts. I don't mean to seem like I'm coming after you, because I don't mean to be. But honestly, "one hot streak" "offensive liability" are simply false statements that do not at all reflect the player he has been. He may be slipping and he may never recover, but I would not rule out the possibility that he recovers to be an .800+ OPS and lead this team in HRs and RBIs. Who knows, how he'll finish this season but you're recollection of past events does not correspond with the actual numbers.
    I know a lot of people are talking about his on-base percentage (.308 in 2008), but I like to think more in terms of him his in-scoring position percentage. - Our Beloved Manager

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    Homer Bailey (05-08-2013)


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