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Thread: ESPN article on Choo

  1. #46
    All work and no play..... Vottomatic's Avatar
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    Re: ESPN article on Choo

    Quote Originally Posted by CySeymour View Post
    From what source?
    Meh. I can't tell you that.

    And keep in mind I didn't say he would be traded.

    But never say never. I've just heard he's not untouchable/untradeable.

    What if the Reds come up short by the end of the season. At what point does management make a few changes?

    I'm sure if they win it all, they'll bring everything back intact. But if the season doesn't end in a positive way, never say never to certain guys being traded.
    "I can't take this homerism anymore." - 10xWSChamps, August 11, 2010. A Cardinals fan having a problem with all the homerism on Redszone. Classic.

    "Man do I miss the days where were didn't need a calculator and an encyclopedia of baseball metrics to enjoy a baseball game ... - MikeS21" - 8/2/12 game thread

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  3. #47
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    Re: ESPN article on Choo

    Quote Originally Posted by Nasty_Boy View Post
    Once again, you are taking opinions and stating them as facts. I don't mean to seem like I'm coming after you, because I don't mean to be. But honestly, "one hot streak" "offensive liability" are simply false statements that do not at all reflect the player he has been. He may be slipping and he may never recover, but I would not rule out the possibility that he recovers to be an .800+ OPS and lead this team in HRs and RBIs. Who knows, how he'll finish this season but you're recollection of past events does not correspond with the actual numbers.
    You see things your way, and I'll see things my way.

    We'll just agree to disagree. Sounds like a Dave Mason song (the oldtimers know who he is).
    "I can't take this homerism anymore." - 10xWSChamps, August 11, 2010. A Cardinals fan having a problem with all the homerism on Redszone. Classic.

    "Man do I miss the days where were didn't need a calculator and an encyclopedia of baseball metrics to enjoy a baseball game ... - MikeS21" - 8/2/12 game thread

  4. #48
    All work and no play..... Vottomatic's Avatar
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    Re: ESPN article on Choo

    Another comment directed at our farm system.

    If the offense needs more consistency, how are they going to upgrade it? The farm system has very few hitters ready for the majors. The Reds will have to go outside the organization to fill those slots. And if the offense is the reason the season maybe doesn't end up right........I can see them looking elsewhere.
    "I can't take this homerism anymore." - 10xWSChamps, August 11, 2010. A Cardinals fan having a problem with all the homerism on Redszone. Classic.

    "Man do I miss the days where were didn't need a calculator and an encyclopedia of baseball metrics to enjoy a baseball game ... - MikeS21" - 8/2/12 game thread

  5. #49
    Member BungleBengals's Avatar
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    Re: ESPN article on Choo

    As soon as we extend or resign Choo I will go buy his jersey. I would get it now if I knew he was staying longer than a year. Made that mistake when Benson did well for the Bengals.
    2013 Attendance: 6-0
    4/3/13, 4/16/13, 4/17/13, 8/3/13, 8/21/13, 9/7/13

  6. #50
    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
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    Re: ESPN article on Choo

    Fangraphs has Choo at -5.8 runs per UZR. But even with that, he's tied for 4th in WAR among position players in the majors, between Manny Machado and Evan Longoria and just ahead of Joey Votto. Not too shabby.

    I'd say that, so far, his bat is carrying his glove just fine.

    As for the "let's sign him to an extension" push, let's simmer on that. His value is at its peak right now; people will dream on the idea that he's reached some new level of ability, when more likely is that he's just had one heck of a hot streak. Don't get me wrong, the .290/.385/.470 guy is extremely valuable and I would love to have him on the team for the next few years.

    But it's a long season. He could get seriously hurt. He could completely fall apart. He's definitely not going to sustain a .452 wOBA. As a Boras guy, I'd be absolutely shocked if he didn't hit FA unless the Reds paid a massive premium (think 5/100 minimum - not kidding) and I don't think that's smart.
    Last edited by RedsManRick; 05-08-2013 at 01:09 PM.
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

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    Re: ESPN article on Choo

    How about keeping Bruce in RF, put Choo in LF and find a solid CF until Hamilton is ready? Ludwick can be a bench guy or traded if there is a market for him.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vottomatic View Post
    Interesting. I heard the opposite and that he is a candidate to be traded possibly next offseason.
    Source?

    Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk 2
    I think that in a year or two, one of these guys - Frazier, Dorn, Valaika, Cumberland, Stubbs - will be ready to replace Dunn. They won't hit as many home runs as Dunn, but they should have similar OPS. - 757690, July 22, 2008

    Alonso will be playing 1B for the REDS and batting 4th one year from today. - Kingspoint, July 9, 2009

  9. #53
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    Re: ESPN article on Choo

    Quote Originally Posted by Vottomatic View Post
    You see things your way, and I'll see things my way.

    We'll just agree to disagree. Sounds like a Dave Mason song (the oldtimers know who he is).
    The thing is I'm not seeing things a certain way or disagreeing with your opinion of him possibly being traded, or that he's getting worse... I'm talking about the statements (not opinions) that are being loosely tossed around as facts. The opinion of Bruce's skills, the opinion of Choo > Bruce are all fine... Claiming someone is not "clutch" and only has "one hot streak a season" while being an "offensive liability" are not opinion, they are just false uninformed statements. Those are not ORG quality statements in my opinion.

    *ps... I enjoy what you bring to discussions and your passion for the Reds, I'm not trying to be personal.
    I know a lot of people are talking about his on-base percentage (.308 in 2008), but I like to think more in terms of him his in-scoring position percentage. - Our Beloved Manager

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    Homer Bailey (05-08-2013)

  11. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vottomatic View Post
    Meh. I can't tell you that.

    And keep in mind I didn't say he would be traded.

    But never say never. I've just heard he's not untouchable/untradeable.

    What if the Reds come up short by the end of the season. At what point does management make a few changes?

    I'm sure if they win it all, they'll bring everything back intact. But if the season doesn't end in a positive way, never say never to certain guys being traded.
    Hogwash.
    Nice try.

    I heard the exact opposite.
    From my friends dog.
    Less than hearsay.

    Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk 2
    I think that in a year or two, one of these guys - Frazier, Dorn, Valaika, Cumberland, Stubbs - will be ready to replace Dunn. They won't hit as many home runs as Dunn, but they should have similar OPS. - 757690, July 22, 2008

    Alonso will be playing 1B for the REDS and batting 4th one year from today. - Kingspoint, July 9, 2009

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    Re: ESPN article on Choo

    Quote Originally Posted by Vottomatic View Post
    I've never been a big fan of Bruce.

    For me, he lives off one hot streak a year and is a liability offensively the rest of the season. Been that way since he came up. And he may be getting worse.

    My opinions are of his game. He seems like a great guy and I wish more than anything he could put it all together. I just have seen the same problems for the past 4 years.
    Just so you know you're not out there alone, I have seen the same thing for all of Bruce's career. I cringe whenever Bruce comes to the plate in a key situation (better not say "clutch", right?), and I can't stand the high K rate and hot and cold streaks.

    You know what they say about stats....lies, damn lies, and statistics.

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    Vottomatic (05-08-2013)

  14. #56
    I'm gettin paper Homer Bailey's Avatar
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    Re: ESPN article on Choo

    Quote Originally Posted by redssince75 View Post
    Just so you know you're not out there alone, I have seen the same thing for all of Bruce's career. I cringe whenever Bruce comes to the plate in a key situation (better not say "clutch", right?), and I can't stand the high K rate and hot and cold streaks.

    You know what they say about stats....lies, damn lies, and statistics.
    Bruce has a career OPS of .804, and a career high leverage OPS of .795. Either bring some facts, or find a new narrative.

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    Re: ESPN article on Choo

    I guess what I'm seeing is lies and damned lies vs. statistics
    I know a lot of people are talking about his on-base percentage (.308 in 2008), but I like to think more in terms of him his in-scoring position percentage. - Our Beloved Manager

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    Re: ESPN article on Choo

    Quote Originally Posted by Homer Bailey View Post
    Bruce has a career OPS of .804, and a career high leverage OPS of .795. Either bring some facts, or find a new narrative.
    I don't memorize stats.

    I have watched baseball for 40 years, have watched Bruce for 4, and have seen what I need to see.

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    Vottomatic (05-08-2013)

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    Re: ESPN article on Choo

    Quote Originally Posted by Nasty_Boy View Post
    The thing is I'm not seeing things a certain way or disagreeing with your opinion of him possibly being traded, or that he's getting worse... I'm talking about the statements (not opinions) that are being loosely tossed around as facts. The opinion of Bruce's skills, the opinion of Choo > Bruce are all fine... Claiming someone is not "clutch" and only has "one hot streak a season" while being an "offensive liability" are not opinion, they are just false uninformed statements. Those are not ORG quality statements in my opinion.

    *ps... I enjoy what you bring to discussions and your passion for the Reds, I'm not trying to be personal.
    Because they're my opinions. I've never stated anything as fact. I've stated them as my opinions.

    Since when did opinions have to be backed up by stats?

    I live my life often going by gut feelings. And I've learned to trust my gut feelings because they turn out right more often than not.
    "I can't take this homerism anymore." - 10xWSChamps, August 11, 2010. A Cardinals fan having a problem with all the homerism on Redszone. Classic.

    "Man do I miss the days where were didn't need a calculator and an encyclopedia of baseball metrics to enjoy a baseball game ... - MikeS21" - 8/2/12 game thread

  19. #60
    I'm gettin paper Homer Bailey's Avatar
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    Re: ESPN article on Choo

    Quote Originally Posted by redssince75 View Post
    I don't memorize stats.

    I have watched baseball for 40 years, have watched Bruce for 4, and have seen what I need to see.
    I'll take it as a compliment that you think I memorized that stat. It's actually pretty easy look up whether or not your eyes are telling you the truth.

    But if you want to deny a cold, hard, indisputable fact and go with what your "eyes have told you", then I guess this narrative will just continue to live on.

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    Nasty_Boy (05-08-2013)


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