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Thread: Travis Wood and Mike Leake

  1. #16
    Member 757690's Avatar
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    Re: Travis Wood and Mike Leake

    Quote Originally Posted by CySeymour View Post
    True, plus a competent starter is always more valuable then a reliever.
    I think this very case is proving that to be false.
    "Man, the pitch looks fast, even in slow motion." Thom Brennaman on Chapman's fastball.

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  3. #17
    .377 in 1905 CySeymour's Avatar
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    Re: Travis Wood and Mike Leake

    Quote Originally Posted by 757690 View Post
    I think this very case is proving that to be false.
    How so?
    ...the 2-2 to Woodsen and here it comes...and it is swung on and missed! And Tom Browning has pitched a perfect game! Twenty-seven outs in a row, and he is being mobbed by his teammates, just to the thirdbase side of the mound.

  4. #18
    Public Enemy #1 Tom Servo's Avatar
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    Re: Travis Wood and Mike Leake

    I feel like we were all collectively down on Wood after 2011 and I don't recall too much made of him being included in the Marshall deal, so it's hard to fault the Reds front office for dealing him. Plus, as PuffyPig pointed out, Wood will fall back to earth.
    "Since I've been with the Reds in 1989, we've never had a farm system this loaded," Bowden said. "If we were the New York Yankees and had unlimited dollars, we could have traded for Colon, (Jeff) Weaver, Rolen, (Cliff) Floyd, (Kenny) Rogers and Finley and gotten them all -- and still held onto our top five prospects. That's an amazing statement."

  5. #19
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    Re: Travis Wood and Mike Leake

    Quote Originally Posted by PuffyPig View Post
    4.19 xFIP
    That reminds me, I need to go to the opthalmologist.

  6. #20
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    Re: Travis Wood and Mike Leake

    You have to take into consideration one thing with the Wood vs. Leake decision - I believe Wood was out of options going into the 2012 season. He was on the 40 man in 2009, 2010, and 2011, and spent time in the minors each of those 3 years (I would have to check on 2011 though, but I don't think all of the time was DL time). After the Reds traded for Latos there was only one spot left in the rotation, and that would have to be Wood. You also have to remember that at the time Chapman was being penciled into that 5th starter spot, and Leake would have been sent down to AAA. They could not do that with Wood.

    Wood was a victim of the numbers game, and Leake provided the Reds with better flexibility. If the Reds don't deal for Latos I don't think the trade for Marshall happens, and if it did happen it would not have included Wood. Even if he had 1 option year left, that is still far less than Leake's 3.
    Last edited by scott91575; 05-08-2013 at 12:29 PM.

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  8. #21
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    Re: Travis Wood and Mike Leake

    Quote Originally Posted by Crosley68 View Post
    My guess is that the Cubs wanted Wood and not Leake. So the argument is did the Cubs make the right choice. I would rather have Leake and Marshall than Leake and Wood at this point.
    I'm not so sure about this. The Reds threw in 3 prospects, so my guess is at the time, they weren't willing to park with Leake who looked to be the stronger pitcher.

  9. #22
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    They just posted leaks career stats
    84 starts 30-23 4.23 era
    Rookie in 2010 straight to the bigs.

    Yeah, time to give up on this guy.

    Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk 2
    I think that in a year or two, one of these guys - Frazier, Dorn, Valaika, Cumberland, Stubbs - will be ready to replace Dunn. They won't hit as many home runs as Dunn, but they should have similar OPS. - 757690, July 22, 2008

    Alonso will be playing 1B for the REDS and batting 4th one year from today. - Kingspoint, July 9, 2009

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  11. #23
    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
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    Re: Travis Wood and Mike Leake

    I was definitely a Travis Wood supporter, but I think he and Leake are basically peas in a pod. Mediocre stuff, good control. They won't miss a ton of bats and will give up more than their fair-share of homers. When they walk guys, they're going to get hurt. They're basically #4 starter types with limited upside but who won't kill you overall -- in the Ted Lilly/ Randy Wolf mold. The biggest difference is Wood's left-handedness, but I'm not convinced that it makes a big difference at the end of day in terms of throwing the other team off balance by having a lefty in the rotation.
    Last edited by RedsManRick; 05-08-2013 at 01:03 PM.
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

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  13. #24
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    Re: Travis Wood and Mike Leake

    Quote Originally Posted by CySeymour View Post
    How so?
    I'm glad the Reds made the trade. I'd rather have Marshal than either Wood or Leake.
    "Man, the pitch looks fast, even in slow motion." Thom Brennaman on Chapman's fastball.

  14. #25
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    Re: Travis Wood and Mike Leake

    Wood has a 1.214 WHIP over 411 major league innings; Leake has a 1.345 over 519. That's not a huge difference but it's significant enough to make me think that Wood will have the better career; his being left-handed has some comparative value too. As far as the Marshal trade goes, Wood vs. Leake is, in some ways, moot, as we don't know if the Cubs would have made the deal for Leake. Generally I think trading a starter for a reliever is a bad move but I liked this trade at the time and still do. We continued to have more than adequate rotation depth after Wood's departure and Marshal strengthened the bullpen considerably. This is a deal focused on a very specific need identified as critical to pushing the team to WS caliber and, as such, making it is going to require giving up very substantial value--which I consider we did. I'd say the same is true of the Gregorius-Choo deal. Obviously the major league sample size for Didi is way too small to draw any conclusions from. The one important piece of information, though, for a player comparison to Cozart is that Gregorius is in process of becoming a regular at age 23, something Cozart didn't do until he was 26. Together with their minor league stats, this points, for me, to the expectation that Gregorius will be the better player. Again regarding the deal for Choo, this is somewhat moot. Again I like the deal. It's the kind of deal you're going to have to make if the effort is to get over the top during a WS window of opportunity.

  15. #26
    Member smixsell's Avatar
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    Re: Travis Wood and Mike Leake

    Quote Originally Posted by TRF View Post
    For all the DiDi talk, I thought I'd throw this one out there. When Leake was drafted, he was said to be so polished he would go straight to the major leagues. Now I believe he'd have been better served to start at AA and work his way up a bit, learn how to be a professional ball player, pitching every 5 days. But it was almost a forgone conclusion he wouldn't start in the minor leagues. So, he was competing for the 5th starters spot, and he won it over Travis Wood, who was later traded to the Cubs for Marshall.

    But.. did the Reds trade the wrong guy?

    Wood has logged about 100 fewer innings than Leake, and is a year older. Both pitch in hitter's parks in a hitter's division. Wood is better at getting a K, though he's certainly not fantastic at it, 6.9 K/9 is decent.

    And certainly this year, he's been stellar.

    My biggest Leake complaint is he's just too hittable. I don't see all the "movement" he's reputed to have. I see laser straight fastballs in the zone, and he gets pounded like a mallard in a butcher shop.

    For all the hand wringing over a SS with 59 career AB's, Travis Wood is what should be driving you nuts. I watched him carve up the Cardinals last night. Fast worker, gets in a good rhythm, and gets ahead of hitters.
    Possibly.

    Unfortunately I think we have never used Leake in the best way possible. He's at his best when he uses his sinking fastball the most, and his sinking fastball is at it's best (more movement) when his arm is a little tired. So pitching him on too much rest is the worst thing we can do.

    Again, unfortunately, this is what we've tended to do with him ever since we started to give him extra rest in his first season to avoid the "Verducci (sp?) effect." I think if we keep his arm a little tired we'll see a much better Mike Leake. If we use Leake better (think short rest rather than long rest), then I still think he'll wind up better than Wood.

    Unfortunately, pitching in GABP is never going to be his best environment.

  16. #27
    Vavasor TRF's Avatar
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    Re: Travis Wood and Mike Leake

    Not too many pitchers have a night Travis Wood had last night. 6 IP 5H 2 ER 2BB 6K's 2-3 at the plate with a grand slam, his second HR of the year.

    That's a helluva night.
    Suck it up cupcake.

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  18. #28
    .377 in 1905 CySeymour's Avatar
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    Re: Travis Wood and Mike Leake

    Quote Originally Posted by 757690 View Post
    I'm glad the Reds made the trade. I'd rather have Marshal than either Wood or Leake.
    I'll take the competent starter, you take the reliever, and let the chips fall as they may.
    ...the 2-2 to Woodsen and here it comes...and it is swung on and missed! And Tom Browning has pitched a perfect game! Twenty-seven outs in a row, and he is being mobbed by his teammates, just to the thirdbase side of the mound.

  19. #29
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    Re: Travis Wood and Mike Leake

    Quote Originally Posted by PuffyPig View Post
    He has a .198 BABIP and a 4.19 xFIP this year, so it looks like we need to wait and see how he normalizes. he really hasn't pitched any better this year, just gotten luckier.
    I completely agree with this. I'd also add that we didn't necessarily make a mistake just because the other team received value in the trade. They got Wood and he's been what they hoped; we got Marshall and he's been what we hoped. Sounds like an ideal trade to me.
    How do we know he's not Mel Torme?

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  21. #30
    Daffy Duck RedTeamGo!'s Avatar
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    Re: Travis Wood and Mike Leake

    Quote Originally Posted by 757690 View Post
    I'm glad the Reds made the trade. I'd rather have Marshal than either Wood or Leake.
    Obviously you cannot plan on injuries, but man I am starting to think we will not see much of Marshall at all this year.

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