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Thread: Trade idea: Arroyo for Michael Young?

  1. #31
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    Re: Trade idea: Arroyo for Michael Young?

    Quote Originally Posted by tsdavis11 View Post
    As recently as 2011, Young put up these #'s

    OBP .380
    SLG .474
    OPS .854
    AVG .338
    Only 78 strikeouts in 631 trips to the plate (I understand and respect the argument that strikeouts don't matter, but in a 2-hole hitter, I want a guy who makes good contact).

    He'd be a 1-year rental and Frazier would play LF. Once Ludwick gets back Frazier can split time at both 3B and LF spelling the 2 "old" guys as the season is winding down.

    He's not perfect, but IF he's available for another "old" 1-year rental guy in Arroyo, then I would think it's a perfect case of dealing from a strength to fill a need that injuries have created for both ball clubs.
    Here's my question though. Is the defensive downgrade at third worth whatever probable offensive upgrade that Young provides over the Heisey/Paul duo in left?

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  3. #32
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    Re: Trade idea: Arroyo for Michael Young?

    Quote Originally Posted by tsdavis11 View Post
    As recently as 2011, Young put up these #'s

    OBP .380
    SLG .474
    OPS .854
    AVG .338
    Only 78 strikeouts in 631 trips to the plate (I understand and respect the argument that strikeouts don't matter, but in a 2-hole hitter, I want a guy who makes good contact).

    He'd be a 1-year rental and Frazier would play LF. Once Ludwick gets back Frazier can split time at both 3B and LF spelling the 2 "old" guys as the season is winding down.

    He's not perfect, but IF he's available for another "old" 1-year rental guy in Arroyo, then I would think it's a perfect case of dealing from a strength to fill a need that injuries have created for both ball clubs.
    Thank you. I don't think Frazier is horrible but he versus young for the needs of this team it's pretty simple. Young has a 15 year track record if being near or at an all star quality player. His skillset is one that this team desperately needs. So people are telling me they'd not be willing to move a second year guy who is batting 230 something and with the exception of two weeks this year has looked lost at the plate since last September? The move would fill two gaps without having to move prospects that could be used in a later deal for a larger acquisition.

  4. #33
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    Re: Trade idea: Arroyo for Michael Young?

    Quote Originally Posted by Old school 1983 View Post
    Can Frazier hit second or cleanup? Nope. Can he get an RBI against someone who is an above average pitcher? Not frequently. Frazier was a better player I wouldn't care if he was a rookie. Young has qualities this team is sorely lacking. Put Todd in left. If he's as good as you guys all think hell have no problem proving it and shutting me up, which he isn't right now.
    Young isn't a #2 or #4 now, either.
    ...the 2-2 to Woodsen and here it comes...and it is swung on and missed! And Tom Browning has pitched a perfect game! Twenty-seven outs in a row, and he is being mobbed by his teammates, just to the thirdbase side of the mound.

  5. #34
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    Re: Trade idea: Arroyo for Michael Young?

    Quote Originally Posted by CySeymour View Post
    Young isn't a #2 or #4 now, either.
    He could bat two on this team all day long.

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    Re: Trade idea: Arroyo for Michael Young?

    And strikeouts matter depending in the situation n that's why it's called situational hitting. You shorten the swing and put the ball in play things happen. If a double play is in order for the most part air it out and see what happens. If there is a runner on third and less than two outs strike outs are huge. They are too in late game situations where you need a base runner. If you put the ball in play luck happens. If you don't the only thing that happens is a string breeze and splinters in your butt when you go sit on the bench.

  7. #36
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    Re: Trade idea: Arroyo for Michael Young?

    Quote Originally Posted by Old school 1983 View Post
    And strikeouts matter depending in the situation n that's why it's called situational hitting. You shorten the swing and put the ball in play things happen. If a double play is in order for the most part air it out and see what happens. If there is a runner on third and less than two outs strike outs are huge. so are late game situations where you need a base runner. If you put the ball in play luck happens. If you don't the only thing that happens is a string breeze and splinters in your butt when you go sit on the bench.

  8. #37
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    Re: Trade idea: Arroyo for Michael Young?

    Quote Originally Posted by Old school 1983 View Post
    He could bat two on this team all day long.
    And he'd be bad at it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Old school 1983 View Post
    And strikeouts matter depending in the situation n that's why it's called situational hitting. You shorten the swing and put the ball in play things happen. If a double play is in order for the most part air it out and see what happens. If there is a runner on third and less than two outs strike outs are huge. They are too in late game situations where you need a base runner. If you put the ball in play luck happens. If you don't the only thing that happens is a string breeze and splinters in your butt when you go sit on the bench.
    What does this have to do with Michael Young?
    ...the 2-2 to Woodsen and here it comes...and it is swung on and missed! And Tom Browning has pitched a perfect game! Twenty-seven outs in a row, and he is being mobbed by his teammates, just to the thirdbase side of the mound.

  9. #38
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    Re: Trade idea: Arroyo for Michael Young?

    Quote Originally Posted by CySeymour View Post
    And he'd be bad at it.



    What does this have to do with Michael Young?
    And he'd be bad at it? What are our two guys batting now? Cozart is in the interstate. What do strikeouts have to do with young? Well striking out the way Frazier does often flailing at sliders in the dirt is an issue and you guys seem to want to guard him with your life and claim you can't move him for young. So Ks matter here. Cozart Ks quite a bit amd hes our two hole hitter right? Young is a career 302 hitter with a career 348 obp. How does that not make the two spot better? Plus I'd be willing to bet money he'd give quality professional disciplined at bats that we'd never see out of cozart or Frazier.

  10. #39
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    Re: Trade idea: Arroyo for Michael Young?

    Youngs bat would make this team better. He is a better all around and more disciplined hitter than either Frazier, the guy you guys wouldn't move, and cozart, the guy who he'd be replacing in the two slot. There's really not a legitimate argument that either of these guys could match his hitting ability on a consistent basis. If the argument was contractual or who we were giving up bits arroyo in theory here, I could understand, but there is really no question that young is a better quality hitter than those two.

  11. #40
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    Re: Trade idea: Arroyo for Michael Young?

    So your solution is to trade an asset of value for a hitter that though may be better then Cozart hitting second, will still be bad? Sorry, we will just have to agree to disagree on this.
    ...the 2-2 to Woodsen and here it comes...and it is swung on and missed! And Tom Browning has pitched a perfect game! Twenty-seven outs in a row, and he is being mobbed by his teammates, just to the thirdbase side of the mound.

  12. #41
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    Re: Trade idea: Arroyo for Michael Young?

    Quote Originally Posted by CySeymour View Post
    So your solution is to trade an asset of value for a hitter that though may be better then Cozart hitting second, will still be bad? Sorry, we will just have to agree to disagree on this.
    Last time I checked over 300 for a career is considered a sign of greatness. And no he wouldn't be my perfect solution. I'd rather sit back and see if we could grab Headley or if we could realistically go after Stanton do that. I think Alex rios from the sox would be a fit too. As would willingham. I just don't get all the Todd Frazier love on this board I get he's a good guy and a hard worker i love his attitude, but as far as play, to me the guy looks like a backup or platoon player on what is supposed to be a championship caliber team. I'd take youngs bat in the lineup with a Frazier move to left if it was the best available option all day. Especially at the cost of arroyo, when cueto returns, who will probably be gone next year anyway. It is essentially rental for rental
    Last edited by Old school 1983; 05-09-2013 at 12:27 AM.

  13. #42
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    Re: Trade idea: Arroyo for Michael Young?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goose1701 View Post
    What? OBP absolutely correlates to runs. Guess what? The Reds are 1st in the NL in BB%, 3rd in the NL in OBP and 2nd in the NL in runs!
    I said obp correlates to runs. It doesn't cause them. RBI and situational hitting do. Correlation is not causation. Obp correlates with runs scored. It doesn't cause them. RBI and situational hitting do. If obp caused runs then every base runner would score. That's not the case. There is a correlation between obp and runs meaning generally higher the obp, then there is a probability that you score more runs. But RBI directly cause runs. Basic fact. So while two stats can correlate, it doesn't mean that one directly causes the other. It could be some other factor like RBI.

    For example. You could have based loaded every inning and not score a run. But you could hit one homer and win one to nothing. There is a strong correlation between obp and runs but RBI cause runs.

    You need a balance of both. Right now the reds are getting strong obp numbers but pretty lack luster RBI numbers from everyone but Phillips. The issue is choo is on. No one gets a hit after or at least gets him over. Then votto bats gets on, and if Phillips doesn't knock him in the next two guys Bruce and Frazier are susceptible to the K which yields nothing with runners on. With young in the two spot I think choo would be at least moved over more if not joined on base by young, and it'd give votto more chances at RBI than he is getting. At that point our two best hitters aside from choo would be getting real chances to cause runs with RISP rather than just Phillips followed by two up and down feast or famine guys.
    Last edited by Old school 1983; 05-09-2013 at 12:23 AM.

  14. #43
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    Re: Trade idea: Arroyo for Michael Young?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goose1701 View Post
    Here's my question though. Is the defensive downgrade at third worth whatever probable offensive upgrade that Young provides over the Heisey/Paul duo in left?
    I don't think the defense at third would be downgraded that much if st all because fraziers defense is being overvalued. He has improved yes, but I think people are mistaking an improvement with being much better than he actually is.

  15. #44
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    Michael Young was once good. He is no longer good. Pass.

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    Re: Trade idea: Arroyo for Michael Young?

    Quote Originally Posted by gilpdawg View Post
    Michael Young was once good. He is no longer good. Pass.
    Like I said. If that's all that's avaikae I'd do it. I'd try to hold out for more closer to the deadline. Young still is a better player than some of the players we have though.


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