Furthermore it would play to fraziers strengths which are the ability to play multiple positions(put him in left in a platoon with lutz until one distinguishes himself) and to hit for power. I'm not totally down on Frazier. I think he could be used better. I like your description of the sophomore jinx as well. It's all about adjusting. IMO Frazier isn't going through a jinx though. I really think he overperformed last year (I really hope I'm wrong bc he is a great guy and hard worker and is love to have that on the team if it has production included in it).
But back to the trade idea. Young for arroyo. You would basically be trading a rental for rental and it could be easily Rgued that the rotation would be better once cueto returns and having cingrani in arroyos place. Even more by trading arroyo you would t be giving up prospects that could be used in a later trade for a power hitting left fielder to further fortify the lineup.
I think Arroyo too is too much to give up for Young, but I applaud the OP for floating a different idea out there for discussion.
Thank you Walt and Bob for going for it in 2012 AND 2013!
Nov. 13, 2007: One of the greatest days in Reds history: John Allen gets the boot!
I like Michael Young as a target especially if the Phillies fall out of things. I doubt that the price is as high as Arroyo. The Phils only sent Texas a AA reliever and the Josh Lindbloom (think Logan Ondrusek) and that was for a 10 million and a full year of Young. I would think the cost for a half season will be less in the Phils are way out of things in a few weeks.
Young's stats by the way:
.322/.394/.415/.809 would look great in the 2nd spot. 14 bb's, 20 k's
Last edited by klw; 05-09-2013 at 02:22 PM.
I would not consider giving up Arroyo for Young.
Yes, I love him like the brother I never had, and that may be clouding my judgement, but his dependability is extremely rare for a MLB pitcher. He will win about 15 games, and is a fierce competitor. Reds have had too many "talents" (Griffey Jr, Dunn, Stubbs, Bruce) over the years and not enough guys who will not go quietly into that good night.
We depended on Harang, and he went down, we depended on Volquez, and he went down, we depended on Cueto, and he went down. Arroyo has rolled on.
Oh, and who had our best outing in the playoffs last year? In AT&T, no less.
We have a third basemen and a LF on the roster, no way Reds make that move....
Just for ****s and giggles:
Frazier-.323 wOBA, 1.5 WAR
Young-.307 wOBA 0.4 WAR
Michael Young's OPS+ is now 92. Frazier's is 98. Frazier's WAR is 1.1, Young's is -0.4. Young makes the Reds a worse team, not a better one.
...the 2-2 to Woodsen and here it comes...and it is swung on and missed! And Tom Browning has pitched a perfect game! Twenty-seven outs in a row, and he is being mobbed by his teammates, just to the thirdbase side of the mound.
Frazier, Cozart, Leake--and whoever the whipping boys in this forum are--for the most part are core players. Their salaries are controllable, and as of now, there are no decent minor leaguers to supplant them.
An addition of Michael Young makes NO SENSE financially, or what you are trying to build for now and for the next three to four years. Let's say you give away Ondrusek (a controlled arbitration reliever) AND a single-A prospect for two months of Michael Young? Really?
Plus, depending on when you trade for Young, you are increasing payroll from anywhere to 2 million to 4 million for a player that is marginally better than Frazier.
Now, that 2 to 4 million could have been spent on keeping the arbitration players and/or signing Choo (not a snow ball's chance in hell--in my opinion).
However, another way would be to have the Phillies offset the 2 to 4 million--BUT that would be at a cost of a much more highly qualified prospect.
The Reds are not dealing Frazier, and quite frankly there is no reason to.
A man who whistles in elevators.
And the whole he'd only make the team marginally better thing just leaves me scratching my head. Of course don't overpay for a guy like that bit ondrusek wouldn't be a great loss nor would a marginal minor league pitcher. And if you can marginally improve a few spots that adds up to a decent amount. Also maybe that marginal improvement or two we didn't make last year would have lead to one more run in game three of the NLDS. So point being marginal improvements can have major impacts...all at the right price of course. Don't overpay for a marginal improvement.