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Thread: Trade idea: Arroyo for Michael Young?

  1. #16
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    Re: Trade idea: Arroyo for Michael Young?

    Quote Originally Posted by CySeymour View Post
    Young has driven 100 runs twice. He's coming off of a season were he had a WAR of -2.
    With several seasons in the mid to high 90s too. I rounded up. How many guys on the reds do that again?

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  3. #17
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    Re: Trade idea: Arroyo for Michael Young?

    Quote Originally Posted by Old school 1983 View Post
    With several seasons in the mid to high 90s too. I rounded up. How many guys on the reds do that again?
    How many Reds have been active as long as Young? He's 36 and on the decline. He hasn't put up a 3 WAR season since 2008 and has mostly been a defensive liability for his whole career.
    ...the 2-2 to Woodsen and here it comes...and it is swung on and missed! And Tom Browning has pitched a perfect game! Twenty-seven outs in a row, and he is being mobbed by his teammates, just to the thirdbase side of the mound.

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    Re: Trade idea: Arroyo for Michael Young?

    Quote Originally Posted by CySeymour View Post
    How many Reds have been active as long as Young? He's 36 and on the decline. He hasn't put up a 3 WAR season since 2008 and has mostly been a defensive liability for his whole career.
    Our guys have been active long enough to have a 100 RBI season. Votto only one that's active. How many .300 hitters do we have? Votto and choo. God forbid we put another one between them. He's old and done just like everyone said about rolen. This drives me nuts. He's make the team better and Frazier can hit 230 something and play left.

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    Re: Trade idea: Arroyo for Michael Young?

    But in SABR world strikeouts don't matter and closers don't matter lets trade chapman for Stanton and forget it. This stuff is driving me nuts. It's not directed at you cy but people on here in general are like itching to trade Bruce or chapman but defend Frazier to near the death. I can definitely see where you are coming from with youngs D but I really doubt it's be worse than fraziers and this team desperately needs a consistent contact hitter and honestly if cueto comes back arroyo won't be a huge loss at this point in his career.

    It just seems like people think players are collections of stats and not matter what spot it situation you plug them in they will be those stats. Stats and even advanced SABR stats (which I find useful btw) are the result if a player in a certain lineup and environment and no one stat truely encompasses the total value of a player no matter how hard we try to make one that does.
    Last edited by Old school 1983; 05-08-2013 at 07:17 PM.

  6. #20
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    Re: Trade idea: Arroyo for Michael Young?

    Quote Originally Posted by Old school 1983 View Post
    Our guys have been active long enough to have a 100 RBI season. Votto only one that's active. How many .300 hitters do we have? Votto and choo. God forbid we put another one between them. He's old and done just like everyone said about rolen. This drives me nuts. He's make the team better and Frazier can hit 230 something and play left.
    Bruce has been in the high 90's twice. Phillips has had over 90 twice. Ludwick has a 100 RBI season and one in the high 90's.
    ...the 2-2 to Woodsen and here it comes...and it is swung on and missed! And Tom Browning has pitched a perfect game! Twenty-seven outs in a row, and he is being mobbed by his teammates, just to the thirdbase side of the mound.

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    Re: Trade idea: Arroyo for Michael Young?

    I wouldn't advocate trading Frazier for Young, the idea would be to have both. Young would definitely be a 1 year rental, but then so would Arroyo be for the Phil's. Young has a history of making contact and getting on base, plus he's right-handed. Sounds like the perfect fit between Choo and Votto to me. I'm not sure if we match up with the Phil's as a trade partner, but if we do, Halladay going down unexpectedly provides us with the perfect opportunity if we move quickly and maybe get them to react to a sudden need.

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    Re: Trade idea: Arroyo for Michael Young?

    Quote Originally Posted by Old school 1983 View Post
    Youngs been a perennial 100 RBI guy and has high pressure World Series experience. The dude can flat hit regardless of what his BABIP says. He'd outhit Frazier any day of the week. Maybe not the same power but that's not this teams issue.
    RBI's don't have anything to do with whether a player is a good hitter or not and the World Series experience is completely irrelevant.(Not to mention he has a .684 OPS in those 2 WS).

    Given normal luck, Young might be a slightly better hitter than Frazier overall, but I'd taking Frazier's defense, upside, and contract over Young's without thinking twice.

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    Re: Trade idea: Arroyo for Michael Young?

    Quote Originally Posted by tsdavis11 View Post
    I wouldn't advocate trading Frazier for Young, the idea would be to have both. Young would definitely be a 1 year rental, but then so would Arroyo be for the Phil's. Young has a history of making contact and getting on base, plus he's right-handed. Sounds like the perfect fit between Choo and Votto to me. I'm not sure if we match up with the Phil's as a trade partner, but if we do, Halladay going down unexpectedly provides us with the perfect opportunity if we move quickly and maybe get them to react to a sudden need.
    Where would Young play though? If we had the DH, then I'd be all for sticking him there and in the #2 hole like you guys suggest.

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    Re: Trade idea: Arroyo for Michael Young?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goose1701 View Post
    RBI's don't have anything to do with whether a player is a good hitter or not and the World Series experience is completely irrelevant.(Not to mention he has a .684 OPS in those 2 WS).

    Given normal luck, Young might be a slightly better hitter than Frazier overall, but I'd taking Frazier's defense, upside, and contract over Young's without thinking twice.
    RBI are important. Sure they are a function of where you hit in the lineup but certain players have a propensity to get them. Others don't. It's not luck or Frazier would be batting cleanup right now and this team would have no issues. On what planet is fraziers D is above average? Is there another Frazier on the team that I'm not watching? And experience in pressures situations matters a ton. So does veteran leadership which this team has none of. We can put Frazier in left and when lutz outplays him we can find a new excuse to keep him.

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    Re: Trade idea: Arroyo for Michael Young?

    Oh, and since we're talking about Michael Young and rbi's, it could be noted Todd Frazier is has 15 more this season the Young.
    ...the 2-2 to Woodsen and here it comes...and it is swung on and missed! And Tom Browning has pitched a perfect game! Twenty-seven outs in a row, and he is being mobbed by his teammates, just to the thirdbase side of the mound.

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    Re: Trade idea: Arroyo for Michael Young?

    Quote Originally Posted by Old school 1983 View Post
    RBI are important. Sure they are a function of where you hit in the lineup but certain players have a propensity to get them. Others don't. It's not luck or Frazier would be batting cleanup right now and this team would have no issues. On what planet is fraziers D is above average? Is there another Frazier on the team that I'm not watching? And experience in pressures situations matters a ton. So does veteran leadership which this team has none of. We can put Frazier in left and when lutz outplays him we can find a new excuse to keep him.
    I'm not saying Frazier is Adrian Beltre or Evan Longoria out there, but he seems to be slightly above average to me. I don't recall reading any disparaging reports about his defense at the hot corner. At any rate, he's miles better than Young.

    And veteran leadership? Setting aside if that really matters or not(the club has enough veterans), do you really want this kind leadership? A guy who whines, and is selfish, and demands to be traded when things don't go his way?

    Also:
    But in SABR world strikeouts don't matter and closers don't matter lets trade chapman for Stanton and forget it.
    Assuming Chapman stays a closer(sigh), I would do that trade in a heartbeat. Hell I might even do it if Chapman becomes a starter, assuming we would be able to sign Stanton long term that is.
    Last edited by Goose1701; 05-08-2013 at 08:34 PM. Reason: Added second quote

  13. #27
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    Re: Trade idea: Arroyo for Michael Young?

    Quote Originally Posted by CySeymour View Post
    Oh, and since we're talking about Michael Young and rbi's, it could be noted Todd Frazier is has 15 more this season the Young.
    Can Frazier hit second or cleanup? Nope. Can he get an RBI against someone who is an above average pitcher? Not frequently. Frazier was a better player I wouldn't care if he was a rookie. Young has qualities this team is sorely lacking. Put Todd in left. If he's as good as you guys all think hell have no problem proving it and shutting me up, which he isn't right now.
    Last edited by Old school 1983; 05-08-2013 at 08:38 PM.

  14. #28
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    Re: Trade idea: Arroyo for Michael Young?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goose1701 View Post
    I'm not saying Frazier is Adrian Beltre or Evan Longoria out there, but he seems to be slightly above average to me. I don't recall reading any disparaging reports about his defense at the hot corner. At any rate, he's miles better than Young.

    And veteran leadership? Setting aside if that really matters or not(the club has enough veterans), do you really want this kind leadership? A guy who whines, and is selfish, and demands to be traded when things don't go his way?
    He's help this team win. I have no doubt. RBI do matter. You can't OBP or OPS a team to death. This team proves that. You need RBI. Runs win gamers. Sure the two are correlated but correlation does not mean causation. Getting on base does not create runs. It creates base runners. If you have no one to knock them in it doesn't matter. RBI directly cause runs. We can lead the known universe is obp but if you can't get them in it doesn't matter.

    How many times did Texas bounce young from position to position? They squeezed him out of the picture. The guy could bring an above average contact bat to the reds. They need that desperately. I think he'd do better than Frazier but that's really not the issue. The issue is that he'd be a piece that this team his seriously lacking. For arroyo I'd do the trade. Put Todd in left and let his play settle it.
    Last edited by Old school 1983; 05-08-2013 at 08:43 PM.

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    Re: Trade idea: Arroyo for Michael Young?

    Quote Originally Posted by Old school 1983 View Post
    He's help this team win. I have no doubt. RBI do matter. You can't OBP or OPS a team to death. This team proves that. You need RBI. Runs win gamers. Sure the two are correlated but correlation does not mean causation. Getting on base does not create runs. It creates base runners. If you have no one to knock them in it doesn't matter. RBI directly cause runs. We can lead the known universe is obp but if you can't get them in it doesn't matter.
    What? OBP absolutely correlates to runs. Guess what? The Reds are 1st in the NL in BB%, 3rd in the NL in OBP and 2nd in the NL in runs!

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    Re: Trade idea: Arroyo for Michael Young?

    As recently as 2011, Young put up these #'s

    OBP .380
    SLG .474
    OPS .854
    AVG .338
    Only 78 strikeouts in 631 trips to the plate (I understand and respect the argument that strikeouts don't matter, but in a 2-hole hitter, I want a guy who makes good contact).

    He'd be a 1-year rental and Frazier would play LF. Once Ludwick gets back Frazier can split time at both 3B and LF spelling the 2 "old" guys as the season is winding down.

    He's not perfect, but IF he's available for another "old" 1-year rental guy in Arroyo, then I would think it's a perfect case of dealing from a strength to fill a need that injuries have created for both ball clubs.


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