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Thread: more Dusty frustration...

  1. #16
    Member Norm Chortleton's Avatar
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    Re: more Dusty frustration...

    Quote Originally Posted by _Sir_Charles_ View Post
    Exactly. Yes, some guys are better at bunting than others...but all of the pitchers practice it and they're all expected to be able to perform that task. Clearly, Dusty expects his players to be able to accomplish this basic skill.
    I'm pretty sure Cowboy said that the only time he practiced bunting was when he was a starting pitcher. Now that I think about it, he may have even said that relief pitchers don't even take BP at all.

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  3. #17
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    Re: more Dusty frustration...

    I pose a question then:

    Next Friday, if the exact same scenario happens again, do you think Dusty finds a pinch hitter (likely a starting pitcher)?

    I think the answer is yes. Simon is done bunting for the year, UNLESS he is going out to pitch the next inning.

  4. #18
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    Re: more Dusty frustration...

    Quote Originally Posted by 757690 View Post
    It's actually pretty risky asking a starting pitcher to bunt. Ball gets real close to their hands. We've all seen it numerous times, just recently with Cozart. I'm not sending up a starting pitcher whose not in the game to bunt unless I have to.
    If it was that big of a concern, then pitchers wouldn't be bunting so often. What's worse, a pitcher breaking fingers, or grounding into a double play/striking out?

    Obvious the fingers are a bigger concern in the grand scheme, but I don't think that is Dusty's thought (or any managers), or else he'd be swinging away with his pitchers a whole lot more.

  5. #19
    Unsolicited Opinions traderumor's Avatar
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    Re: more Dusty frustration...

    Quote Originally Posted by TOBTTReds View Post
    I pose a question then:

    Next Friday, if the exact same scenario happens again, do you think Dusty finds a pinch hitter (likely a starting pitcher)?

    I think the answer is yes. Simon is done bunting for the year, UNLESS he is going out to pitch the next inning.
    The decision was more about lesser of two evils than high expectations that the guy would get the job done. This is a common MO of Dusty, so if it was Simon again, he'd be up there again.

    And then there's this crazy thought. You know that batting cage thingy off the Reds dugout? Maybe Simon could practice in case he is put in that situation again. I know it sounds wacky, but it could work
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  6. #20
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    Re: more Dusty frustration...

    Quote Originally Posted by traderumor View Post

    And then there's this crazy thought. You know that batting cage thingy off the Reds dugout? Maybe Simon could practice in case he is put in that situation again. I know it sounds wacky, but it could work
    I know you are being a bit sarcastic here...but in all seriousness, I can understand a pitcher not successfully bunting (it's hard to do still), it was the fashion at which it was done that was so ugly. He looked like he had an ax in his hands.

  7. #21
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    Re: more Dusty frustration...

    Quote Originally Posted by traderumor View Post
    The decision was more about lesser of two evils than high expectations that the guy would get the job done. This is a common MO of Dusty, so if it was Simon again, he'd be up there again.

    And then there's this crazy thought. You know that batting cage thingy off the Reds dugout? Maybe Simon could practice in case he is put in that situation again. I know it sounds wacky, but it could work
    There are only so many hours in the day. Having Simon and Hoover take BP isn't the most efficient use of time.

  8. #22
    RaisorZone Raisor's Avatar
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    Re: more Dusty frustration...

    Quote Originally Posted by _Sir_Charles_ View Post
    Exactly. Yes, some guys are better at bunting than others...but all of the pitchers practice it and they're all expected to be able to perform that task. Clearly, Dusty expects his players to be able to accomplish this basic skill.
    Brantley was saying on tv last night that the relievers, in fact, do not practice bunting. Simon hadn't been called on to bunt in something like five years.
    "But I do know Joey's sister indirectly (or foster sister) and I have heard stories of Joey being into shopping, designer wear, fancy coffees, and pedicures."

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  10. #23
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    Re: more Dusty frustration...

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    Of course, eddabbs post said something quite different than the TShirt. Eddabbs talked about the "self-imposed" frustration of "over" analyzing Dusty's decisions.

    In this case, I wouldn't have bunted at all. Hanigan was on first, likely to be thrown out at second, very slow. Game was close, I would have used a pinch hitter and played for the bigger inning.

  11. #24
    Member Crumbley's Avatar
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    Re: more Dusty frustration...

    Even when I disagree with Dusty, I can usually see the logic if I squint hard enough. I don't get this one at all. Send Leake up there to get the bunt down.

  12. #25
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    Re: more Dusty frustration...

    It was only the 6th inning. We needed a bunt (not someone to swing!) which Simon should be able to handle. Had we needed a hit we would have most likely seen a PH. So what Dusty saw an opportunity to get a job done with using 2 players instead do 3
    There are only two seasons - Winter and Baseball.

  13. #26
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: more Dusty frustration...

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    Of course, eddabbs post said something quite different than the TShirt. Eddabbs talked about the "self-imposed" frustration of "over" analyzing Dusty's decisions.

    In this case, I wouldn't have bunted at all. Hanigan was on first, likely to be thrown out at second, very slow. Game was close, I would have used a pinch hitter and played for the bigger inning.
    I changed it up a little bit. It better fits my thinking

  14. #27
    Member RedsBrick's Avatar
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    Re: more Dusty frustration...

    Quote Originally Posted by _Sir_Charles_ View Post
    Exactly. Yes, some guys are better at bunting than others...but all of the pitchers practice it and they're all expected to be able to perform that task. Clearly, Dusty expects his players to be able to accomplish this basic skill.
    I think you can expect it all day long, and then you can look at stats to see if it supports your expectations. In his 6 year major league career Simon has a whopping 7 ABs and Zero sac bunts. His last successful sac bunt was 7 years ago in the minors. Simon was not put in a position to succeed and based on his numbers and lack of experience, Baker's expectations of him were unrealistic.

    Now maybe Baker didn't really care if he succeeded and that's why he sent him up there....but there were several better options available to perform that task.

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    Re: more Dusty frustration...

    Quote Originally Posted by 757690 View Post
    It's actually pretty risky asking a starting pitcher to bunt. Ball gets real close to their hands. We've all seen it numerous times, just recently with Cozart. I'm not sending up a starting pitcher whose not in the game to bunt unless I have to.
    It's just as risky for Simon, actually more so, as he seldom bunts.

  17. #29
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    Re: more Dusty frustration...

    Quote Originally Posted by PuffyPig View Post
    It's just as risky for Simon, actually more so, as he seldom bunts.
    No offense to Simon, but not nearly as big of a deal if he gets hurt bunting, than if Latos or Bailey do.

    For the record, I am also strongly against using starting pitchers as pinch runners for the same reason.
    "I donít know the key to success, but the key to failure is trying to please everybody".
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  18. #30
    I don't want to grow up Red Raindog's Avatar
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    Re: more Dusty frustration...

    Quote Originally Posted by dfs View Post
    ....Dusty Baker trusted that Simon could get the bunt down. In showing too much faith in his player, Dusty put the player in a position where he could fail, and he did. FWIW Dusty COULD have pinch hit with Joey Votto the second who might have struck out and then you would have message board wags asking why Dusty burned through his bench so early in the game when he could have let the pitcher bunt.

    Like it or not, Dusty Baker is going to go into the hall of fame as a manager. Yeah, back up and read it again.

    What's better is that if in 15 years when somebody else is struggling trying to manage a mid pack reds team there will be message board wags who will pine for the days when Dusty was in the dugout pushing all the right buttons.
    Don't disagree about your statement but I'm often amused by the people that tout that the number of wins he has validates his skill as a manager - he is 18th all time in wins --- what is never mentioned by these supporters -- he's also 18th in all time losses
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