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Thread: More talent: Reds or Cardinals?

  1. #151
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    Re: More talent: Reds or Cardinals?

    Quote Originally Posted by Razzle View Post
    Painting a fanbase by how their fans on an internet message board think is pretty silly, especially those from MLB.com message boards. I'm sure the Reds boards over there have some foolish threads as well. I'm no longer in St. Louis, but most Cardinals fans annoy me and I'm a Cardinals fan, but I'd probably be annoyed by any fan base as most fans are pretty inherently biased and being too far over the top in that regard is grating to me. I personally don't think any fan base is better than any other; they all have their obnoxious members. I also feel that some of the threads started on this board by Cardinals fans have been in very poor form, which is a shame. Nobody wants or needs constant updates on the Cards. We are rivals competing in a tough division, thus I'm pretty sure we know what the other is doing. These things wouldn't be well received on any board that I know of.

    Back on topic, I'm not going to pretend to know which of these teams is better. I'm just going to enjoy two very good teams fight for a division crown with the loser likely to take a wildcard spot. Should be a fantastic summer.


    I am not painting any fan base based on what is on some blogs or forums.... I am basing it on knowing very many Steelers fans since the early 80's and Cardinals fans since the late 80's. I also love those who went from Raiders fans after the 80's ended and became Steeler fans.

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  3. #152
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    Re: More talent: Reds or Cardinals?

    Quote Originally Posted by Red Swagger View Post
    Carpenter's numbers are better than Phillips? HAHA. Nope

    Leads the NL in RBI

    .291 8 HR 42 RBI BP 31 R
    .297 3 HR 15 RBI Carpenter 37 R
    Carpenter hits 1st or 2nd the majority of the time; I wouldn't expect him to be an "RBI machine."

    It's actually kind of interesting to compare their slash lines:

    Carpenter: .294/.377/.428 (.356 wOBA)
    BP: .289/.336/.479 (.348 wOBA)

    It's pretty close in terms of offense. They're mirror images of power and on-base results.
    "Bring on Rod Stupid!"

  4. #153
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    Re: More talent: Reds or Cardinals?

    Quote Originally Posted by Magdal View Post
    I would like to respond to Spirit, whom I remember from years back on Cards Talk forum, but I agree this has gone too far. Perhaps the MODS can pin a thread for Cards fans only since more and more of them are drifting here!
    We don't need no stinkin' pinned Cards thread for Card's fan.

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  6. #154
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    Re: More talent: Reds or Cardinals?

    Quote Originally Posted by SpiritofStLouis View Post
    Brandon Phillips is making 10 million this season, Matt Carpenter is making $ 504,000. So far, Carpenter's numbers are better. Who is giving more bang for the buck ?
    While on first blush some of thier offensive numbers are pretty equal, Phillips is currently better than Carpenter for a number of reasons1) he's more likely to continue hitting the way he is, as he has a track history;(2) he's an RBI machine; and (3) he's the top fielding 2B in baseball at a premium defensive position, and while Carpenter has taken to the position quite well, he's still learning.

    Bang for the buck? Who cares for 2013? The budgets are all set.

    Who do you want up with the game on the line? The .280 hitter making minimum wage, or the .320 hitter making $15M? Bang for the buck doesn't matter in that situation.

  7. #155
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    Re: More talent: Reds or Cardinals?

    Quote Originally Posted by PuffyPig View Post
    While on first blush some of thier offensive numbers are pretty equal, Phillips is currently better than Carpenter for a number of reasons1) he's more likely to continue hitting the way he is, as he has a track history;(2) he's an RBI machine; and (3) he's the top fielding 2B in baseball at a premium defensive position, and while Carpenter has taken to the position quite well, he's still learning.

    Bang for the buck? Who cares for 2013? The budgets are all set.

    Who do you want up with the game on the line? The .280 hitter making minimum wage, or the .320 hitter making $15M? Bang for the buck doesn't matter in that situation.
    Except Phillips has never been close to a .320 hitter. He more like a .320 OBP guy. While carpenter is a .300 hitter with a .370+ obp

  8. #156
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    Re: More talent: Reds or Cardinals?

    The Carpenter/Phillips debate is silly because Carpenter isn't the Cards everyday 2B. A third of his starts have come at 3B.

    Moving forward, he'll likely get most of his starts at 2B, and at the end of the season, if he does get enough starts at 2B to qualify as an everyday 2B, we can compare the two. But right now, Phillips is the only one of the two that is an everyday 2B.
    "Man, the pitch looks fast, even in slow motion." Thom Brennaman on Chapman's fastball.

  9. #157
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    Re: More talent: Reds or Cardinals?

    Quote Originally Posted by Magdal View Post
    I would like to respond to Spirit, whom I remember from years back on Cards Talk forum, but I agree this has gone too far. Perhaps the MODS can pin a thread for Cards fans only since more and more of them are drifting here!
    Perhaps threads for "Cards fans only" can live on Cardinals forums.
    "Bring on Rod Stupid!"

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  11. #158
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    Re: More talent: Reds or Cardinals?

    Carpenter vs BP is downright silly. Let MC finish a whole season with those numbers and as a serious GG candidate THEN the discussion is valid. Budget reasons are the only reason anyone would pick MC at this point. He looks good so far but lets see it consistently on a season long sample at least.

    Both teams have enough talent to win. Health...slumps...çonsistency in pitching and hitting. Those factors will have a lot to do with this race. If I became a billionaire and could choose either franchise -setting aside my Reds fandom - I would honestly love to own either franchise. Both have good teams and future pieces to roll over roster spots...neither looks to be a "win now or never" situation. Both have rabid fans and great history. Seriously...I think I'd throw darts to choose.

  12. #159
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    Re: More talent: Reds or Cardinals?

    Quote Originally Posted by PuffyPig View Post
    While on first blush some of thier offensive numbers are pretty equal, Phillips is currently better than Carpenter for a number of reasons1) he's more likely to continue hitting the way he is, as he has a track history;(2) he's an RBI machine; and (3) he's the top fielding 2B in baseball at a premium defensive position, and while Carpenter has taken to the position quite well, he's still learning.

    Bang for the buck? Who cares for 2013? The budgets are all set.

    Who do you want up with the game on the line? The .280 hitter making minimum wage, or the .320 hitter making $15M? Bang for the buck doesn't matter in that situation.
    I'm actually shocked that you of all people would use the "RBI Machine" argument. What are you going to do next Puffy, role out that wins are a major stat for a starting pitcher?

    EDIT: I'm not disagreeing with your analysis here. I would take BP over Carpenter in an instant but I'm scratching my head at the RBI Machine part. That said, Carpenter can play 3rd very well and he can play 1B if needed. Carpenter may not be better than Phillips but he is more versatile than Phillips.

    EDIT part deux: While I see your point about the bang for your buck argument, it does have some validity when talking about maybe adding a contract down the road in the off season. It is kind of moot now though, as you pointed out.
    Last edited by MikeThierry; 05-27-2013 at 08:03 AM.
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  13. #160
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    Re: More talent: Reds or Cardinals?

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeThierry View Post
    I'm actually shocked that you of all people would use the "RBI Machine" argument. What are you going to do next Puffy, role out that wins are a major stat for a starting pitcher?

    EDIT: I'm not disagreeing with your analysis here. I would take BP over Carpenter in an instant but I'm scratching my head at the RBI Machine part. That said, Carpenter can play 3rd very well and he can play 1B if needed. Carpenter may not be better than Phillips but he is more versatile than Phillips.
    What makes you sure BP couldn't play at third or first?
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  14. #161
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    Re: More talent: Reds or Cardinals?

    Quote Originally Posted by 919191 View Post
    What makes you sure BP couldn't play at third or first?
    Because he never played those positions before. It's unknown where as with Carpenter we know he can because he has played those positions in the past with success. He's an excellent defender at 3rd.
    “Our next home stand follows this road trip.”

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  15. #162
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    Re: More talent: Reds or Cardinals?

    We've got a great division battle going on boys.

    http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/fangraphs-chat-52913/

    Comment From Yeah Yeah
    If you could only attend one game this 2013 season, and you could hand-pick the starting pitching matchup, which two teams would you pay to watch, and in what stadium?



    12:20
    Dave Cameron: Fun question. I might go Reds-Cardinals in STL, with Shelby Miller going against Mat Latos.

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  17. #163
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    Re: More talent: Reds or Cardinals?

    Cards are best team in baseball and I really don't think there is a close 2nd right now. They just look like they know they are going to win every game.

  18. #164
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    Re: More talent: Reds or Cardinals?

    I don't think there's a hairs-breadth of difference between the Cards and Reds overall. They're both playing great ball and we'll have a barn burner of a series in a few days as they duke it out (not literally, I hope...).

    Both teams have great talent with emerging stars and veteran leadership. Both teams have great pitching. The Cards have retooled their bullpen which was a problem early, but no longer.

    Great teams have strong defense up the middle. I give the Reds the edge at second and short - greater range, while the Cards are better at catcher and center field.
    Last edited by redhat; 05-29-2013 at 11:50 PM.
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  19. #165
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    Re: More talent: Reds or Cardinals?

    Is it too early to revisit the Rosenthal vs. Broxton debate? After a rough week to the start of the season, Rosenthal has been dominant. I believe only Chapman is ahead of him in strikeouts from a reliever. Going forward, I continue to see Rosenthal being dominant. He's figured out his change up and it's now moving 90-91 mph with wicked movement. He isn't a middling reliever like some labeled him and I feel that in the end, he will have the better season as setup man than Broxton will.
    “Our next home stand follows this road trip.”

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