Originally Posted by Razzle
I am not painting any fan base based on what is on some blogs or forums.... I am basing it on knowing very many Steelers fans since the early 80's and Cardinals fans since the late 80's. I also love those who went from Raiders fans after the 80's ended and became Steeler fans.
Carpenter hits 1st or 2nd the majority of the time; I wouldn't expect him to be an "RBI machine."
It's actually kind of interesting to compare their slash lines:
Carpenter: .294/.377/.428 (.356 wOBA)
BP: .289/.336/.479 (.348 wOBA)
It's pretty close in terms of offense. They're mirror images of power and on-base results.
We don't need no stinkin' pinned Cards thread for Card's fan.I would like to respond to Spirit, whom I remember from years back on Cards Talk forum, but I agree this has gone too far. Perhaps the MODS can pin a thread for Cards fans only since more and more of them are drifting here!
remdog (05-30-2013)
While on first blush some of thier offensive numbers are pretty equal, Phillips is currently better than Carpenter for a number of reasons1) he's more likely to continue hitting the way he is, as he has a track history;(2) he's an RBI machine; and (3) he's the top fielding 2B in baseball at a premium defensive position, and while Carpenter has taken to the position quite well, he's still learning.
Bang for the buck? Who cares for 2013? The budgets are all set.
Who do you want up with the game on the line? The .280 hitter making minimum wage, or the .320 hitter making $15M? Bang for the buck doesn't matter in that situation.
Except Phillips has never been close to a .320 hitter. He more like a .320 OBP guy. While carpenter is a .300 hitter with a .370+ obpWhile on first blush some of thier offensive numbers are pretty equal, Phillips is currently better than Carpenter for a number of reasons
Bang for the buck? Who cares for 2013? The budgets are all set.
Who do you want up with the game on the line? The .280 hitter making minimum wage, or the .320 hitter making $15M? Bang for the buck doesn't matter in that situation.
The Carpenter/Phillips debate is silly because Carpenter isn't the Cards everyday 2B. A third of his starts have come at 3B.
Moving forward, he'll likely get most of his starts at 2B, and at the end of the season, if he does get enough starts at 2B to qualify as an everyday 2B, we can compare the two. But right now, Phillips is the only one of the two that is an everyday 2B.
Hoping to change my username to 75769024
Perhaps threads for "Cards fans only" can live on Cardinals forums.I would like to respond to Spirit, whom I remember from years back on Cards Talk forum, but I agree this has gone too far. Perhaps the MODS can pin a thread for Cards fans only since more and more of them are drifting here!
foxfire123 (05-26-2013),RedEye (05-27-2013),remdog (05-30-2013)
Carpenter vs BP is downright silly. Let MC finish a whole season with those numbers and as a serious GG candidate THEN the discussion is valid. Budget reasons are the only reason anyone would pick MC at this point. He looks good so far but lets see it consistently on a season long sample at least.
Both teams have enough talent to win. Health...slumps...çonsistency in pitching and hitting. Those factors will have a lot to do with this race. If I became a billionaire and could choose either franchise -setting aside my Reds fandom - I would honestly love to own either franchise. Both have good teams and future pieces to roll over roster spots...neither looks to be a "win now or never" situation. Both have rabid fans and great history. Seriously...I think I'd throw darts to choose.
I'm actually shocked that you of all people would use the "RBI Machine" argument. What are you going to do next Puffy, role out that wins are a major stat for a starting pitcher?While on first blush some of thier offensive numbers are pretty equal, Phillips is currently better than Carpenter for a number of reasons
Bang for the buck? Who cares for 2013? The budgets are all set.
Who do you want up with the game on the line? The .280 hitter making minimum wage, or the .320 hitter making $15M? Bang for the buck doesn't matter in that situation.
EDIT: I'm not disagreeing with your analysis here. I would take BP over Carpenter in an instant but I'm scratching my head at the RBI Machine part. That said, Carpenter can play 3rd very well and he can play 1B if needed. Carpenter may not be better than Phillips but he is more versatile than Phillips.
EDIT part deux: While I see your point about the bang for your buck argument, it does have some validity when talking about maybe adding a contract down the road in the off season. It is kind of moot now though, as you pointed out.
Last edited by MikeThierry; 05-27-2013 at 08:03 AM.
What makes you sure BP couldn't play at third or first?I'm actually shocked that you of all people would use the "RBI Machine" argument. What are you going to do next Puffy, role out that wins are a major stat for a starting pitcher?
EDIT: I'm not disagreeing with your analysis here. I would take BP over Carpenter in an instant but I'm scratching my head at the RBI Machine part. That said, Carpenter can play 3rd very well and he can play 1B if needed. Carpenter may not be better than Phillips but he is more versatile than Phillips.
I've been to dinner at Jimmy Buffet's house, and I've eaten it at a homeless shelter. And there's great joy and harrowing terror to be found in both places.
-Todd Snider
Because he never played those positions before. It's unknown where as with Carpenter we know he can because he has played those positions in the past with success. He's an excellent defender at 3rd.
We've got a great division battle going on boys.
http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/fangraphs-chat-52913/
Comment From Yeah Yeah
If you could only attend one game this 2013 season, and you could hand-pick the starting pitching matchup, which two teams would you pay to watch, and in what stadium?
12:20
Dave Cameron: Fun question. I might go Reds-Cardinals in STL, with Shelby Miller going against Mat Latos.
MikeThierry (05-29-2013),RedEye (05-29-2013)
Cards are best team in baseball and I really don't think there is a close 2nd right now. They just look like they know they are going to win every game.
I don't think there's a hairs-breadth of difference between the Cards and Reds overall. They're both playing great ball and we'll have a barn burner of a series in a few days as they duke it out (not literally, I hope...).
Both teams have great talent with emerging stars and veteran leadership. Both teams have great pitching. The Cards have retooled their bullpen which was a problem early, but no longer.
Great teams have strong defense up the middle. I give the Reds the edge at second and short - greater range, while the Cards are better at catcher and center field.
Last edited by redhat; 05-29-2013 at 11:50 PM.
Is it too early to revisit the Rosenthal vs. Broxton debate? After a rough week to the start of the season, Rosenthal has been dominant. I believe only Chapman is ahead of him in strikeouts from a reliever. Going forward, I continue to see Rosenthal being dominant. He's figured out his change up and it's now moving 90-91 mph with wicked movement. He isn't a middling reliever like some labeled him and I feel that in the end, he will have the better season as setup man than Broxton will.
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