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Thread: More talent: Reds or Cardinals?

  1. #31
    Salukifan2
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    Re: More talent: Reds or Cardinals?

    Quote Originally Posted by 757690 View Post
    ]

    18 HR's over those same innings ain't.

    He actually should do fine once around the league, but if he's a stud, then Carlos Fisher is Ryan Gosling
    Go look at the park he was pitching in at Springfield and the league he was in and all the sudden 18 doesn't look too bad. Springfield's dimensions are a joke

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  3. #32
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    Re: More talent: Reds or Cardinals?

    Beltran over Bruce ain't even close, Beltran by a mile.

    I personally think the Cardinals starting pitching has to come back to earth.

  4. #33
    Member RadfordVA's Avatar
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    Re: More talent: Reds or Cardinals?

    In 2012 Reds RF had OPS of .824 Cardinals RF had OPS of .837.

    Have to imagine when it all ends up this season they will be in about the same range. Bruce slow start but will end up about there I am sure. Beltran had hot start last season but cooled off a bit. Better off looking at overall production from RF due to Beltran missing so much time.

  5. #34
    Member 757690's Avatar
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    Re: More talent: Reds or Cardinals?

    Quote Originally Posted by Salukifan2 View Post
    Go look at the park he was pitching in at and the league he was in and all the sudden 18 doesn't look too bad. Springfield's dimensions are a joke
    Like I said, he'll probably be decent his fort time around the league, but he just ain't no stud.

    For what it's worth, imo, the only studs in the Reds bullpen are Chapman and LeCure's facial hair.
    "Man, the pitch looks fast, even in slow motion." Thom Brennaman on Chapman's fastball.

  6. #35
    Salukifan2
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    Re: More talent: Reds or Cardinals?

    Quote Originally Posted by Vottomatic View Post
    I think it's safe to say the Cardinals are overachieving right now and the Reds are underachieving.

    Beltran will break down and so will the Cards. Their pitching will come back to Earth too.
    The cards pitching will come back down to earth. The problem is there are only two cardinals starters that have an "earth." Waino and Westbrook. Waino is an ace when he is down to earth and Westbrook is a high 3's low 4's ERA guy. Lynn, Garcia, and certainly Miller don't have an earth. In Lynn's rookie season he was fantastic out of the bullpen, and in his first season as a starter he was an All-Star. He didn't finish the year as strong as he hoped but that has been attributed to fatigue caused by his David Wells physique. Now that he is in shape, and starting to really get into sync with his new body his "earth" has yet to really be established. After an impressive rookie campaign Garcia was somewhat of a disappointment in '11 and certainly in '12, but Wainwright and Carpenter have said since Garcia came along that he has the most movement of anyone on the staff. Garcia's issues are almost 100% between the ears. If he figured that out he could be a sub-3 ERA pitcher again like he was in 2010. And with Miller, the guy has been projected to be a top of the rotation guy, possibly and ace his whole minor league career. Will he finish with 1.50 ERA? No, probably not, but i don't think anyone can know how much or how little regression he will face over the next 4 months.

  7. #36
    Viva la Rolen kaldaniels's Avatar
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    Re: More talent: Reds or Cardinals?

    Maybe I'm just cynical and grouchy today, but I have to roll my eyes at the remark Miller "Probably" wont end up with an ERA under 1.50.

  8. #37
    Salukifan2
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    Re: More talent: Reds or Cardinals?

    I mean I use probably only because I can't see the future.

  9. #38
    Member Cedric's Avatar
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    Re: More talent: Reds or Cardinals?

    Quote Originally Posted by Salukifan2 View Post
    I mean I use probably only because I can't see the future.
    With his mechanics I would enjoy every start like it could be his last.
    This is the time. The real Reds organization is back.

  10. #39
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: More talent: Reds or Cardinals?

    Quote Originally Posted by RadfordVA View Post
    In 2012 Reds RF had OPS of .824 Cardinals RF had OPS of .837.

    Have to imagine when it all ends up this season they will be in about the same range. Bruce slow start but will end up about there I am sure. Beltran had hot start last season but cooled off a bit. Better off looking at overall production from RF due to Beltran missing so much time.
    Of course GABP = hitter friendly while Busch = Grand Canyon

    Their hitters suffer but their pitchers benefit, big time.

  11. #40
    Salukifan2
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    Re: More talent: Reds or Cardinals?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cedric View Post
    With his mechanics I would enjoy every start like it could be his last.
    You surely don't mean Miller?

  12. #41
    Viva la Rolen kaldaniels's Avatar
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    Re: More talent: Reds or Cardinals?

    Quote Originally Posted by Salukifan2 View Post
    I mean I use probably only because I can't see the future.
    Ok, that's cool. But if you want to position that as a rational statement, I'd simply ask you what you think the odds are of Miller staying in the rotation all year and posting an ERA under 1.50 are. You won't hear another peep from me on the matter unless you directly ask.

  13. #42
    Member Cedric's Avatar
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    Re: More talent: Reds or Cardinals?

    Quote Originally Posted by Salukifan2 View Post
    You surely don't mean Miller?
    Actually I am. He has way top much "load" on his UCL based on the torque he uses every pitch. Watch his delivery and unless something changes I can almost guarantee an elbow injury relatively soon.

    The torque gives him a few extra Mphs now. In the long run it's too much pressure on his forearm.
    This is the time. The real Reds organization is back.

  14. #43
    Member Cedric's Avatar
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    Re: More talent: Reds or Cardinals?

    Quote Originally Posted by Salukifan2 View Post
    You surely don't mean Miller?
    And I hate the Cardinals and still hope I'm wrong on this. Unless something changes or he is superman he is going to ruin his elbow soon.
    This is the time. The real Reds organization is back.

  15. #44
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    Re: More talent: Reds or Cardinals?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cedric View Post
    And I hate the Cardinals and still hope I'm wrong on this. Unless something changes or he is superman he is going to ruin his elbow soon.
    Why soon?

    Why not last year?
    or the year before?
    or the year before?
    or the year before?

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    MikeThierry (05-12-2013)

  17. #45
    Member MikeThierry's Avatar
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    Re: More talent: Reds or Cardinals?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cedric View Post
    And I hate the Cardinals and still hope I'm wrong on this. Unless something changes or he is superman he is going to ruin his elbow soon.
    Really? From what I can see he has a pretty easy delivery. He falls to the side sometimes but nothing like a Joel Zumaya or a Tim Lincecum type delivery.
    Last edited by MikeThierry; 05-12-2013 at 08:06 PM.
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