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Thread: 1/4 Mark NL and AL MVPs

  1. #106
    breath westofyou's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigredmechanism View Post
    Zoilo Versalles 1965
    .273/.319/.462
    Olivia was better too IIRC

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  3. #107
    High five! nate's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigredmechanism View Post
    Zoilo Versalles 1965
    .273/.319/.462
    His awesome name made up for the lack of OPS.

    "Bring on Rod Stupid!"

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    bigredmechanism (05-16-2013), Raisor (05-16-2013)

  5. #108
    RaisorZone Raisor's Avatar
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    Re: 1/4 Mark NL and AL MVPs

    Who wins the award and who has the best season may or not coincide. So far this year, Votto and choo are far and away the best players on the team

    Phillips is a great two way player but its not even close in my opinion
    "But I do know Joey's sister indirectly (or foster sister) and I have heard stories of Joey being into shopping, designer wear, fancy coffees, and pedicures."

  6. #109
    5.3 Posts Abv Replacement BluegrassRedleg's Avatar
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    Re: 1/4 Mark NL and AL MVPs

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    Cabrera was not the player who provided his team with the most value in 2012. That would be Mike Trout and it wouldn't be close.
    False.
    Rounding third and heading for home...

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    Re: 1/4 Mark NL and AL MVPs

    Quote Originally Posted by BluegrassRedleg View Post
    False.
    How is it false? Cabrera won triple crown is the only thing that separated them. Mike T had better year tho.

  8. #111
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: 1/4 Mark NL and AL MVPs

    Quote Originally Posted by BluegrassRedleg View Post
    False.
    As I have shown, Mike Trout was the better hitter (better OPS+, which adjusts for the parks you play in). I don't think anyone in the world would argue that Cabrera has more defensive or base running value, right?

    So where is what I said false?

  9. #112
    5.3 Posts Abv Replacement BluegrassRedleg's Avatar
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    Re: 1/4 Mark NL and AL MVPs

    Defense and base-running are greatly overvalued IMO (or perhaps difficult to gauge is a better way to put it) in MVP discussion. I take the guy who simply rakes every day unless the numbers are close. Defense and running didn't narrow that gap enough.
    Rounding third and heading for home...

  10. #113
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: 1/4 Mark NL and AL MVPs

    Quote Originally Posted by BluegrassRedleg View Post
    Defense and base-running are greatly overvalued IMO (or perhaps difficult to gauge is a better way to put it) in MVP discussion. I take the guy who simply rakes every day unless the numbers are close. Defense and running didn't narrow that gap enough.
    What gap was there? Trout was the better hitter.

    And even if we are going to say he wasn't, it was close. One guy was an elite center fielder while the other was a crappy corner infielder. The difference there is huge without even applying a single number to their defense. Base running, same thing.
    Last edited by dougdirt; 05-17-2013 at 01:03 AM.

  11. #114
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    Re: 1/4 Mark NL and AL MVPs



  12. #115
    Viva la Rolen kaldaniels's Avatar
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    Re: 1/4 Mark NL and AL MVPs

    I would have voted Trout.

    But throwing up his OPS+ or the like ignores the fact that he did not play the whole season.

    Trout may have been a better hitter. But, was he as valuable as Cabrera was hittingwise since he arrived a month late?

  13. #116
    I transcend race, hombre LaFlamaBlanca's Avatar
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    Re: 1/4 Mark NL and AL MVPs

    Quote Originally Posted by BluegrassRedleg View Post
    Defense and base-running are greatly overvalued IMO (or perhaps difficult to gauge is a better way to put it) in MVP discussion. I take the guy who simply rakes every day unless the numbers are close. Defense and running didn't narrow that gap enough.
    So you'd say it's difficult to gauge who was a better defender or base runner between Trout and Cabrera? Or they have little value in regards to a baseball player's worth?

    Either way, I disagree.

  14. #117
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: 1/4 Mark NL and AL MVPs

    Quote Originally Posted by kaldaniels View Post
    I would have voted Trout.

    But throwing up his OPS+ or the like ignores the fact that he did not play the whole season.

    Trout may have been a better hitter. But, was he as valuable as Cabrera was hittingwise since he arrived a month late?
    Trout had 60 fewer at bats in the season than Cabrera did. That he arrived late certainly does play into it a tiny bit, but Trout had a "full seasons" worth of at bats in 2012 for most players.

    60 extra outstanding at bats from Cabrera don't make up enough of the difference between being an ever so slightly lesser hitter during that season, a drastically worse defender and a drastically worse base runner.

  15. #118
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    Re: 1/4 Mark NL and AL MVPs

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    As I have shown, Mike Trout was the better hitter (better OPS+, which adjusts for the parks you play in). I don't think anyone in the world would argue that Cabrera has more defensive or base running value, right?

    So where is what I said false?
    For the record, Cabrera had a .417 wOBA and Trout had a .409 wOBA. That stat says Cabrera was a more productive hitter.

    As for OPS+, I don't put much value on park adjusted stats, because we really don't know how a player would hit in different parks. Players adjust their approaches all the time based on where they are playing. For me, especially for deciding something like MVP, production is production.

    I still think Trout deserved the MVP, but I don't think you can claim absolutely that he was the better hitter.
    "Man, the pitch looks fast, even in slow motion." Thom Brennaman on Chapman's fastball.

  16. #119
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    Re: 1/4 Mark NL and AL MVPs

    Without Yadier Molina, the Cardinals would be .500, he is the heart and soul of the team and irreplaceable.

    He is a potent bat (.335), the best clutch hitter on the team.

    His defense speaks for himself, and completely shuts down a running game (14 SB attempts in 39 games), and calls such a good game that the standing rule with Cardinal pitchers is to never shake him off.

    I can't speak for other clubs, but without Yadi, the Cardinals are a 4th place team.

    AL, Miggy.
    Last edited by SpiritofStLouis; 05-17-2013 at 08:38 AM. Reason: added content
    We can share the women, we can share the wine.

  17. #120
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    Re: 1/4 Mark NL and AL MVPs

    Quote Originally Posted by nate View Post
    As fun as the "Seriously? Yes. For real? Yes. Really? Yes." game might seem, I think I'm "volleyed out."
    I'm assuming you're just being a jerk, but it seems obvious to everyone else that I was using Brandon's RBI total at the quarter point of the season to show what kind of MVP candidate he'd be at that rate for a full season. I know he won't end up with 130 RBI, but that wasn't the point. I never said he was "the" MVP. I only said he should be on the list of candidates at the quarter mark. According to some of you, I guess he wasn't of any value to the team last night either.

    It seems that this site is the only place I find baseball fans who discredit Brandon's season thus far. Is there another cleanup hitter in the game who is driving in runs and playing defense at the level BP is? There can't be many.
    "I talked to an advance scout that told me if Joey Votto and Albert Pujols were on the same team he'd advise his team to do the unthinkable...pitch around Votto to get to Pujols." - Buster Olney, ESPN


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