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Thread: Garcia to DL

  1. #46
    Member Magdal's Avatar
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    Re: Garcia to DL

    Hey Spirit....what's a super 2?

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  3. #47
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    Re: Garcia to DL

    Quote Originally Posted by SpiritofStLouis View Post
    They don't want to bring Wacha up, they want him to get used to pitching in a 5 man rotation. Plus, if he comes up before June 15th, he becomes a potential super 2. The Cardinals don't want to lose that extra year.
    If everyone doesn't bring up their best prospects to avoid the super 2 designation, that date gets pushed back every year.

    The days of service time in the players first year has gone down from 146, to 139, to 119 in the last 3 years. This assuming that a player stays in the majors once he's brought up.

    In any event, it's not an exact date.

  4. #48
    I'm gettin paper Homer Bailey's Avatar
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    Re: Garcia to DL

    Quote Originally Posted by SpiritofStLouis View Post
    They don't want to bring Wacha up, they want him to get used to pitching in a 5 man rotation. Plus, if he comes up before June 15th, he becomes a potential super 2. The Cardinals don't want to lose that extra year.

    I wasn't / am not a fan of Rosenthal in the pen. I was hoping they would leave him in Memphis to stretch him out in case another starter was needed.

    Martinez can't start yet, he had visa troubles and just got to the states in mid March, so he missed spring training. Lyons will get a start or two until Westbrook is back. If Westbrook has a setback, who knows.

    One thing's for sure, with Gast and Lyons in the rotation, they better have a couple arms in the bullpen that can go at least 2 innings.
    You don't "lose a year" with a super 2. They just end up becoming arbitration eligible a year earlier.

  5. #49
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    Re: Garcia to DL

    Quote Originally Posted by Magdal View Post
    Hey Spirit....what's a super 2?
    depending on when a player is called up, they can be eligible for an extra year of arbitration, which costs the team money

  6. #50
    Moderator The Operator's Avatar
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    Re: Garcia to DL

    Quote Originally Posted by Homer Bailey View Post
    You don't "lose a year" with a super 2. They just end up becoming arbitration eligible a year earlier.
    Exactly. And if the player knows you did that just to avoid paying them sooner, they're likely to be fairly upset about it.
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  7. #51
    Salukifan2
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    Re: Garcia to DL

    Quote Originally Posted by The Operator View Post
    Exactly. And if the player knows you did that just to avoid paying them sooner, they're likely to be fairly upset about it.
    Not if you came up a year ahead of schedule like Martinez, Kelly, Cast, and now lyons

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    Re: Garcia to DL

    Quote Originally Posted by Salukifan2 View Post
    Not if you came up a year ahead of schedule like Martinez, Kelly, Cast, and now lyons
    Gast and Lyons are not relevant in discussing super 2, as they are likely to matter over a number of years.

    Kelly,maybe, maybe not.

    Martinez definitely. But he's heading back to the minors likely to continue starting, oi he'll likely not getting the service time this year anyway.

  9. #53
    Moderator The Operator's Avatar
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    Re: Garcia to DL

    Quote Originally Posted by Salukifan2 View Post
    Not if you came up a year ahead of schedule like Martinez, Kelly, Cast, and now lyons
    Coming up ahead of schedule has nothing to do with what I said though. My point is holding guys back who are worthy of being brought up right now, who could be helping your team - and not doing it to save money.

    Nobody that meets that description is really coming up ahead of schedule if you ask me.
    Quote Originally Posted by BCubb2003 View Post
    Don't worry. I'd say the game threads are about league average.
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  10. #54
    Member MikeThierry's Avatar
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    Re: Garcia to DL

    Quote Originally Posted by Tony Cloninger View Post
    Gast has 4 shutout innings for the cardinals. Looks about as unimpressive as Matt Maloney was a few years ago. Just throws slop and hitters cannot figure out to go the other way with him until at least 3 AB's in.
    or you mean Bronson Arroyo? Reds fans of all people shouldn't be commenting on guys who throw slop when you have the definition of slop in your starting rotation.
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  12. #55
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    Re: Garcia to DL

    Martinez, Rosenthal, Wacha and Jenkins are the Cardinals' long-term answers for their rotation. Gast, Lyons, Kelly and Maness are just interim placeholders. The Cardinals are loaded with top pitching prospects.

  13. #56
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Garcia to DL

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeThierry View Post
    or you mean Bronson Arroyo? Reds fans of all people shouldn't be commenting on guys who throw slop when you have the definition of slop in your starting rotation.
    For everyone Bronson Arroyo there are 20 guys in AAA who can't get it done at the MLB level.

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  15. #57
    KungFu Fighter AtomicDumpling's Avatar
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    Re: Garcia to DL

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeThierry View Post
    or you mean Bronson Arroyo? Reds fans of all people shouldn't be commenting on guys who throw slop when you have the definition of slop in your starting rotation.
    Hey Buster, Bronson Arroyo is not just a slop thrower. He is the King of Slop. There can only be one King of Slop.

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  17. #58
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    Re: Garcia to DL

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeThierry View Post
    or you mean Bronson Arroyo? Reds fans of all people shouldn't be commenting on guys who throw slop when you have the definition of slop in your starting rotation.
    Bronson Arroyo has 126 more career wins than Gast using his slop.

    Bronson Arroyo is not currently a good comparison for Gast. Arroyo is what Gast should be aspiring to be.

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  19. #59
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    Re: Garcia to DL

    Quote Originally Posted by PuffyPig View Post
    If everyone doesn't bring up their best prospects to avoid the super 2 designation, that date gets pushed back every year.

    The days of service time in the players first year has gone down from 146, to 139, to 119 in the last 3 years. This assuming that a player stays in the majors once he's brought up.

    In any event, it's not an exact date.
    I realize that, that's Wacha's date.
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  20. #60
    Savante SpiritofStLouis's Avatar
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    Re: Garcia to DL

    Quote Originally Posted by Magdal View Post
    Hey Spirit....what's a super 2?
    This is off the MLB site, just so I don't screw up the gist.

    Super Two” players. “Super Two” is a special status that allows certain players with less than three years of major league service to file for salary arbitration without club permission. Players must have accrued at least two years of major league service, however, to be eligible. In order to receive “Super Two” status, a player must meet all of the following conditions:

    player meets major league service threshold
    player meets non-free-agent criteria above
    player has accrued at least 86 days of major league service time in the immediately prior major league season
    player ranks in the top 22 percent of all players who meet conditions (1), (2) and (3)

    The “Super Two” designation affords qualifying players one extra year of arbitration eligibility, which can be an invaluable tool for a player to achieve a salary raise. This status stirs highly contested debates among baseball pundits and should probably be discussed in a dedicated article. For our purposes, just know this status exists and is something all major league clubs recognize and monitor closely when evaluating young talent.
    Basically, it's a time clock for a player that allows for arbitration a year earlier than otherwise eligible. It means a team will lose a year of control over a player, which inevitably costs the team money.

    Teams will often wait until after the cut off date (which varies) to call a player up, thus avoiding having to pay a player an arbitration salary a year early.
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