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Thread: Garcia to DL

  1. #106
    Savante SpiritofStLouis's Avatar
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    Re: Garcia to DL

    Quote Originally Posted by 757690 View Post
    If the Cards thought Martinez and Kelly were viable starting options, they would be starting right now. Lyons and Gast are not guys a team turns to unless they have no other options.
    Kelly and Martinez are not viable options right now because neither is stretched out to start. In addition, Martinez missed almost all of spring training due to visa issues.

    Lyons and Gast were called because the FO felt they earned it. Granted, they haven't been lights out, but under the circumstances, they've held their own. Plus, they're 3-0 combined.

    The Cardinal rookie pitchers, not counting Miller, are 6-0. I can live with that.

    If Lyons and Gast falter, there are plenty of other options that don't involve a trade.
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  3. #107
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    Re: Garcia to DL

    Quote Originally Posted by SpiritofStLouis View Post
    Kelly and Martinez are not viable options right now because neither is stretched out to start. In addition, Martinez missed almost all of spring training due to visa issues.

    Lyons and Gast were called because the FO felt they earned it. Granted, they haven't been lights out, but under the circumstances, they've held their own. Plus, they're 3-0 combined.

    The Cardinal rookie pitchers, not counting Miller, are 6-0. I can live with that.

    If Lyons and Gast falter, there are plenty of other options that don't involve a trade.
    I understand Martinez not being stretched out, but Kelly was a starter for nearly all of Spring Training, and was a starter last year... at the MLB level. It's clear that the Cardinals don't see him as a starter anymore.

    Martinez could project as a starter, but if the Cardinals were confident about that, and really expected him to start in the majors this year, they wouldn't have him in the pen now in the majors. They would be starting him in AAA, getting him not just stretched out, but working on his off-speed pitches, which are not MLB ready yet.

    The fact that the Cardinals are using Lyons and Gast as starters, tells the world that they don't have any other options at this point. Contending teams don't start guys like them, unless they have to.
    "Man, the pitch looks fast, even in slow motion." Thom Brennaman on Chapman's fastball.

  4. #108
    Savante SpiritofStLouis's Avatar
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    Re: Garcia to DL

    Quote Originally Posted by 757690 View Post
    I understand Martinez not being stretched out, but Kelly was a starter for nearly all of Spring Training, and was a starter last year... at the MLB level. It's clear that the Cardinals don't see him as a starter anymore.

    Martinez could project as a starter, but if the Cardinals were confident about that, and really expected him to start in the majors this year, they wouldn't have him in the pen now in the majors. They would be starting him in AAA, getting him not just stretched out, but working on his off-speed pitches, which are not MLB ready yet.

    The fact that the Cardinals are using Lyons and Gast as starters, tells the world that they don't have any other options at this point. Contending teams don't start guys like them, unless they have to.
    Martinez was up with the big club before Westbrook and Garcia went down. You are correct that the Cardinals didn't expect him to start this year. Why should they, he was in AA.

    You are wrong, however, in assuming that the Cardinals don't see him as a starter. He is 21 and has never pitched in AAA, the only reason he got called up was to plug the bullpen. I don't see how that indicates that the team has given up on him as a starter.

    I imagine that the reason he hasn't been sent down to stretch out is that the Cardinals are comfortable with Gast and Lyons. They earned the call ups and until they prove that they can't hack it, I imagine they'll stay where they are.

    The Cardinals have 4 starters in their bullpen at the moment getting their feet wet, so to speak. That isn't permanent, in fact I expect Rosenthal to be in the rotation next year as the # 5.

    If I have to chose between what the Cardinal FO decides and your opinion, with all due respect, I'll side with the people who do this for a living.

    FWIW, " guys like them " are 3-0.
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  5. #109
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    Re: Garcia to DL

    Quote Originally Posted by SpiritofStLouis View Post

    FWIW, " guys like them " are 3-0.
    I hadn't realized we'd regressed back to the point where a starter's W-L record is considered his prime stat in telling the world how well he had pitched.

  6. #110
    Unsolicited Opinions traderumor's Avatar
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    Re: Garcia to DL

    Quote Originally Posted by SpiritofStLouis View Post
    Martinez was up with the big club before Westbrook and Garcia went down. You are correct that the Cardinals didn't expect him to start this year. Why should they, he was in AA.

    You are wrong, however, in assuming that the Cardinals don't see him as a starter. He is 21 and has never pitched in AAA, the only reason he got called up was to plug the bullpen. I don't see how that indicates that the team has given up on him as a starter.

    I imagine that the reason he hasn't been sent down to stretch out is that the Cardinals are comfortable with Gast and Lyons. They earned the call ups and until they prove that they can't hack it, I imagine they'll stay where they are.

    The Cardinals have 4 starters in their bullpen at the moment getting their feet wet, so to speak. That isn't permanent, in fact I expect Rosenthal to be in the rotation next year as the # 5.

    If I have to chose between what the Cardinal FO decides and your opinion, with all due respect, I'll side with the people who do this for a living.

    FWIW, " guys like them " are 3-0.
    Some Algebra for you: FWIW = 0
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  8. #111
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    Re: Garcia to DL

    Quote Originally Posted by SpiritofStLouis View Post
    Martinez was up with the big club before Westbrook and Garcia went down. You are correct that the Cardinals didn't expect him to start this year. Why should they, he was in AA.

    You are wrong, however, in assuming that the Cardinals don't see him as a starter. He is 21 and has never pitched in AAA, the only reason he got called up was to plug the bullpen. I don't see how that indicates that the team has given up on him as a starter.

    I imagine that the reason he hasn't been sent down to stretch out is that the Cardinals are comfortable with Gast and Lyons. They earned the call ups and until they prove that they can't hack it, I imagine they'll stay where they are.

    The Cardinals have 4 starters in their bullpen at the moment getting their feet wet, so to speak. That isn't permanent, in fact I expect Rosenthal to be in the rotation next year as the # 5.

    If I have to chose between what the Cardinal FO decides and your opinion, with all due respect, I'll side with the people who do this for a living.

    FWIW, " guys like them " are 3-0.
    I said it seems like the Cards don't see him as an MLB starter for this year. Which you speed to agree with. I actually said he does project as a starter long term.

    Sure, some Cardinal relievers could become starters next season or after that, but the point is, they really don't have much to replace Gast or Lyons should they or any other starter go down this year. The very fact that they are using Gast and Lyons right now backs that up.

    Actually what I've been doing to showing what the Cardinal FO decisions have revealed. This isn't a case of me giving a different opinion from theirs.
    "Man, the pitch looks fast, even in slow motion." Thom Brennaman on Chapman's fastball.

  9. #112
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    Re: Garcia to DL

    Good grief! All this talk of "projected upside, and BABIP" have me scratching my head. One thing that I CAN address is the idea that the Cardinal front office is populated by super bright guys. Trust me, it ain't.

    But the farm system is cranking along on all 8 cyliders. Westbrook going down may be the best thing to have happened. He was a total waste of roster space. A lifetime .500 pitcher is only good for a sub .500 team.

    Garcia going down was also a good thing, as the man was not healthy, and his performance clearly showed it. Both have been replaced by good arms on the rise. They can do little worse than a sound Westie and a broke Garcia.

  10. #113
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    Re: Garcia to DL

    Quote Originally Posted by Magdal View Post

    Garcia going down was also a good thing, as the man was not healthy, and his performance clearly showed it.
    But if Garcia hadn't gone down, presumably it would mean he was healthy.

    And I'nm not sure what part of his performance "showed it". He was 5-2, 3.58 (with a 3.32 xFIP).

    And it was his last two starts when he started experiencing health issue that inflated his stats. He was 4-1, 2.25 before then.

    The new guys may be better than an "injured Garcia", but they will not be better than a "healthy one".

  11. #114
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    Re: Garcia to DL

    Quote Originally Posted by Magdal View Post
    Good grief! All this talk of "projected upside, and BABIP" have me scratching my head. One thing that I CAN address is the idea that the Cardinal front office is populated by super bright guys. Trust me, it ain't.

    But the farm system is cranking along on all 8 cyliders. Westbrook going down may be the best thing to have happened. He was a total waste of roster space. A lifetime .500 pitcher is only good for a sub .500 team.

    Garcia going down was also a good thing, as the man was not healthy, and his performance clearly showed it. Both have been replaced by good arms on the rise. They can do little worse than a sound Westie and a broke Garcia.
    They can be much, much worse.

  12. #115
    The Big Dog mth123's Avatar
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    Re: Garcia to DL

    Looks like Gast is out now. Shoulder issue.
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

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  13. #116
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    Re: Garcia to DL

    Will being on the DL hamper Garcia's phenomenal ability to collect unearned runs?
    Cincinnati Reds 2014 W-L Record: 76.6-85.4*

    Cincinnati Reds 2015 W-L Record: TBA

    *UPDATED: 2/11/2014

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  15. #117
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    Re: Garcia to DL

    Westbrook is going to see Dr. Andrews as his arm continues to feel "not right".

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    Re: Garcia to DL

    Quote Originally Posted by SpiritofStLouis View Post

    If Lyons and Gast falter, there are plenty of other options that don't involve a trade.
    With Gast out, I guess we'll find out what those options are.

  17. #119
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    Re: Garcia to DL

    Quote Originally Posted by PuffyPig View Post
    With Gast out, I guess we'll find out what those options are.
    Michael Blazek, a reliever, called up from AA. I guess this means Kelly to the rotation.
    "Man, the pitch looks fast, even in slow motion." Thom Brennaman on Chapman's fastball.

  18. #120
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    Re: Garcia to DL

    Something about that Cardinals organization that takes a toll on their pitchers arms and shoulders. They need to figure out what they're doing wrong that is destroying all their pitchers.
    "I can't take this homerism anymore." - 10xWSChamps, August 11, 2010. A Cardinals fan having a problem with all the homerism on Redszone. Classic.

    "Man do I miss the days where were didn't need a calculator and an encyclopedia of baseball metrics to enjoy a baseball game ... - MikeS21" - 8/2/12 game thread


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