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Thread: Joey Votto or Miguel Cabrera?

  1. #31
    Member Crumbley's Avatar
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    Re: Joey Votto or Miguel Cabrera?

    Give me Cabrera for the next three or four seasons, Votto for the next ten.

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  3. #32
    Waitin til next year bucksfan2's Avatar
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    Re: Joey Votto or Miguel Cabrera?

    Cabrera, but since he has to play in the field its a little closer than it should be.

  4. #33
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Joey Votto or Miguel Cabrera?

    If we are talking about being a hitter, give me Cabrera. If we are talking about the player, I can't pick.

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  6. #34
    Unsolicited Opinions traderumor's Avatar
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    Re: Joey Votto or Miguel Cabrera?

    Quote Originally Posted by kearns and dunn View Post
    I know this is kind of a taboo subject, but if you're going to bring up Cabrera's alcohol issues, don't you have to bring up Votto's depression issues? Both are negatives.
    So you are the authorized taboo subject spokesperson?

    However, one has been an isolated incident and has demonstrated recovery (of course, anyone can fall into clinical depression at any time) while the other has had repeated incidents and has at least stayed out of the news for awhile, but I don't know that he has demonstrated recovery. So, I'd take Votto here, also.
    Can't win with 'em

    Can't win without 'em

  7. #35
    Member Wonderful Monds's Avatar
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    Re: Joey Votto or Miguel Cabrera?

    Quote Originally Posted by jojo View Post
    Miggy could probably give you better advice on what to put in your coffee.
    Not maple syrup, I'm guessing.
    They don't think it be like it is, but it do.
    Quote Originally Posted by Larry Schuler View Post
    He has also taught me that even when the Reds win it is important to focus on the fact that they could have lost.

  8. #36
    Member NebraskaRed's Avatar
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    Re: Joey Votto or Miguel Cabrera?

    Quote Originally Posted by kearns and dunn View Post
    I know this is kind of a taboo subject, but if you're going to bring up Cabrera's alcohol issues, don't you have to bring up Votto's depression issues? Both are negatives.
    I would say the way Votto has dealt with depression has turned it into a positive. However, I do know that Votto has spoken publicly about how dealing with depression has lead him to think differently about his role at the plate and on the field. If you're curious about this, instead of quoting specifics I'd suggest just looking up a lot of his interviews from around the time his father died. And this video as well.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNJ2QDQN4Wc

    Maybe Cabrera has turned his issues with alcohol into a positive as well, I don't know. Maybe someone who knows more about Cabrera can speak to that.
    Last edited by NebraskaRed; 05-21-2013 at 02:11 PM.

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  10. #37
    All work and no play..... Vottomatic's Avatar
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    Re: Joey Votto or Miguel Cabrera?

    Quote Originally Posted by SpiritofStLouis View Post
    You're joking, right ?
    Only when talking about St. Louis.
    "I can't take this homerism anymore." - 10xWSChamps, August 11, 2010. A Cardinals fan having a problem with all the homerism on Redszone. Classic.

    "Man do I miss the days where were didn't need a calculator and an encyclopedia of baseball metrics to enjoy a baseball game ... - MikeS21" - 8/2/12 game thread

  11. #38
    Member MikeThierry's Avatar
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    Re: Joey Votto or Miguel Cabrera?

    Quote Originally Posted by RadfordVA View Post
    About equal. But Cabrera is super hot right now so that is what everyone wants to talk about. Remember how hot Hamilton started the season last year and how he was going to be biggest FA last year and there was no way to get him out.....man things can change quickly.
    No they weren't. Joe Posnanski wrote an interesting article the other day about Albert Pujols essentially not mattering anymore. In the article, he brought up mind boggling numbers that put him on par with Ted Williams, Stan Musial, Babe Ruth, and Lou Gehrig the first ten years of his career. Miggy hasn't even come close to matching or being compared to any of those guys. I think people forget how dominant Pujols was early in his career because he was overshadowed by Bonds. We're talking about a player who never struck out more than 100 times in a season and had 8 years of +1.000 OPS seasons four of which where he OPS'd over 1.100. What also truly separated Miggy and Pujols in their prime is that Pujols had elite level defense at first. In fact, I would argue that Pujols will probably go down as a top 5 defender at 1B. Because of this factor, Pujols consistently put up 8 WAR seasons while Miggy has yet to have a season over 6.9 WAR according to fangraphs.

    As far as the original question goes, I would probably take Miggy, esp. if we're talking about Miggy playing in a ballpark like Great American Ballpark. I marvel at what Miggy is able to do in that canyon of a ballpark he plays in on a daily basis.
    “Our next home stand follows this road trip.”

    “I just want to tell everyone Happy Easter and Happy Hanukkah.” says on the day before Easter

    Mike Shannon

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  13. #39
    Member MikeThierry's Avatar
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    Re: Joey Votto or Miguel Cabrera?

    By the way, here is that Joe Posnanski article that I referred to:

    http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/519372...orts-baseball/
    “Our next home stand follows this road trip.”

    “I just want to tell everyone Happy Easter and Happy Hanukkah.” says on the day before Easter

    Mike Shannon

  14. #40
    Et tu, Brutus? Brutus's Avatar
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    Re: Joey Votto or Miguel Cabrera?

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    If we are talking about being a hitter, give me Cabrera. If we are talking about the player, I can't pick.
    I agree, but given pedigree, intangibles, off-the-field stuff and body type/vices/habits, I'd think Votto is a better bet going forward.
    "No matter how good you are, you're going to lose one-third of your games. No matter how bad you are you're going to win one-third of your games. It's the other third that makes the difference." ~Tommy Lasorda

  15. #41
    Et tu, Brutus? Brutus's Avatar
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    Re: Joey Votto or Miguel Cabrera?

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeThierry View Post
    As far as the original question goes, I would probably take Miggy, esp. if we're talking about Miggy playing in a ballpark like Great American Ballpark. I marvel at what Miggy is able to do in that canyon of a ballpark he plays in on a daily basis.
    Votto actually had a better park-adjusted OPS last year than Cabrera, FYI.
    "No matter how good you are, you're going to lose one-third of your games. No matter how bad you are you're going to win one-third of your games. It's the other third that makes the difference." ~Tommy Lasorda

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  17. #42
    RaisorZone Raisor's Avatar
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    Re: Joey Votto or Miguel Cabrera?

    I will take Votto. I'm not changing my cat's name
    "But I do know Joey's sister indirectly (or foster sister) and I have heard stories of Joey being into shopping, designer wear, fancy coffees, and pedicures."

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    Nasty_Boy (05-22-2013)

  19. #43
    Big Red Machine RedsBaron's Avatar
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    Re: Joey Votto or Miguel Cabrera?

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeThierry View Post
    By the way, here is that Joe Posnanski article that I referred to:

    http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/519372...orts-baseball/
    Pujols would have almost certainly declined at the same rate had he remained a Cardinal, but he lost some of his iconic status when he decided to go to the highest bidder rather than remain in St. Louis. Had he stayed there would have eventually been a statute of him outside the Cardinals ballpark, next to Musial.
    "Hey...Dad. Wanna Have A Catch?" Kevin Costner in "Field Of Dreams."

  20. #44
    Big Red Machine RedsBaron's Avatar
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    Re: Joey Votto or Miguel Cabrera?

    While most people realize Cabrera has a chance to become the first player to win back-to-back triple crowns, I learned on this morning's visit to "The Hardball Times" that Joey Votto is currently on pace to get on base this season 352 times. Only five times in history has a player in the modern era got on base 350 or more times. Babe Ruth did it three times and Teddy Ballgame and B*rry B*nds did it once each. The article said that getting on base 330 times has only been done 21 times.
    "Hey...Dad. Wanna Have A Catch?" Kevin Costner in "Field Of Dreams."

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  22. #45
    Public Enemy #1 Tom Servo's Avatar
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    Re: Joey Votto or Miguel Cabrera?

    You know, Miggy will be a free agent come 2016...
    "Since I've been with the Reds in 1989, we've never had a farm system this loaded," Bowden said. "If we were the New York Yankees and had unlimited dollars, we could have traded for Colon, (Jeff) Weaver, Rolen, (Cliff) Floyd, (Kenny) Rogers and Finley and gotten them all -- and still held onto our top five prospects. That's an amazing statement."

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    RedlegJake (05-25-2013)


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