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Thread: Let's give Mike Leake some credit.

  1. #286
    Viva la Rolen kaldaniels's Avatar
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    Re: Let's give Mike Leake some credit.

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Hook View Post
    At what point do people start believing that Leake is as good as he's looked so far this year? Another strong outing tonight going 7 innings allowing just 1 earned run.

    I'm slowly becoming a believer.
    Nothing wrong with the post above but...

    Stuff like this Brutus, is why some of us point out he is not likely to continue pitching this well. That, and the Maddux remarks. I only mention this since you inquired.

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  3. #287
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Let's give Mike Leake some credit.

    Quote Originally Posted by Brutus View Post
    I don't understand the urge to point out how Leake isn't really a "2.50 ERA" type of pitcher. Frankly, I don't see anyone on this board that has said he is. No one has even said he's a No. 1-starter in terms of 'stuff.'

    Pointing out his success doesn't mean one is accepting him as legitimately a sub-3 guy. It just means that he is, in fact pitching really well. Whether that production comes as 2.50 or 3.50 (which is indeed probably closer to where his talent lies), he's been a productive member of the rotation.
    A few pages ago someone asked at what point do we believe this is the real Mike Leake. While I am sure that question can be read a ton of different ways, one of those ways certainly could be "When will people believe that Mike Leake is a sub 3.00 ERA pitcher for the long haul". That is why you get people saying that they don't believe he is.

  4. #288
    Et tu, Brutus? Brutus's Avatar
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    Re: Let's give Mike Leake some credit.

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    A few pages ago someone asked at what point do we believe this is the real Mike Leake. While I am sure that question can be read a ton of different ways, one of those ways certainly could be "When will people believe that Mike Leake is a sub 3.00 ERA pitcher for the long haul". That is why you get people saying that they don't believe he is.
    That's a rather narrow translation of a pretty generic statement.
    "No matter how good you are, you're going to lose one-third of your games. No matter how bad you are you're going to win one-third of your games. It's the other third that makes the difference." ~Tommy Lasorda

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  6. #289
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Let's give Mike Leake some credit.

    Yet I am hardly the only person who seemed to read it that way...

  7. #290
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    Re: Let's give Mike Leake some credit.

    Quote Originally Posted by lidspinner View Post
    you just have to be smarter than the meathead idiot standing 60 some odd feet away from you.

    unfortunately, he won't be facing one of the Reds while he's on their payroll.

  8. #291
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    Re: Let's give Mike Leake some credit.

    I was at the game Saturday. Leake was outstanding. I don't believe his current success is indicative of what his career norms will be, but I've always said a player is who he is until he proves he isn't. Leake was a batting tee in years past, always had a high H/9. Now he isn't. So for now he isn't.

    I'll say this. He had ample opportunities to melt down Saturday, and he didn't. He showed a lot of maturity. It's altered my perception of him a bit. Not completely mind you, but I cannot argue too much with his results.
    Suck it up cupcake.

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  10. #292
    Viva la Rolen kaldaniels's Avatar
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    Re: Let's give Mike Leake some credit.

    Leake isn't the most valuable player for the Reds this year.

    But if he hadn't stepped up the way he has its hard to tell where the Reds would be.

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  12. #293
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    Re: Let's give Mike Leake some credit.

    Quote Originally Posted by kaldaniels View Post
    Leake isn't the most valuable player for the Reds this year.

    But if he hadn't stepped up the way he has its hard to tell where the Reds would be.
    I'm having a hard time figuring out who's been more valuable.

  13. #294
    Viva la Rolen kaldaniels's Avatar
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    Re: Let's give Mike Leake some credit.

    Quote Originally Posted by Falls City Beer View Post
    I'm having a hard time figuring out who's been more valuable.
    I have to think it is Votto due to the mass production day in and out.

    But we expected that. Not so much with Leake.

  14. #295
    Where's my chair? REDREAD's Avatar
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    Re: Let's give Mike Leake some credit.

    Quote Originally Posted by kaldaniels View Post
    Leake isn't the most valuable player for the Reds this year.

    But if he hadn't stepped up the way he has its hard to tell where the Reds would be.
    Most valuable pitcher is probably Leake by a hair.
    Latos has been incredible too.. not really his fault the pen has blown so many leads, but the games Leake has started have kept us in contention.

    Again, not saying Leake is a better pitcher than Latos, just my definition of valuable.

    Honestly, in hindsight, putting Chapman to the rotation and Leake to long relief or trade bait would've probably put us another 3-6 games behind in the standings. (Subtract Leake's good games, plus the back of the bullpen would be a disaster with Brox and Marshall out)
    Thank you Walt and Bob for going for it in 2010-2014!

    Nov. 13, 2007: One of the greatest days in Reds history: John Allen gets the boot!

  15. #296
    Pitching is the thing WVRedsFan's Avatar
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    Re: Let's give Mike Leake some credit.

    Quote Originally Posted by REDREAD View Post
    Most valuable pitcher is probably Leake by a hair.
    Latos has been incredible too.. not really his fault the pen has blown so many leads, but the games Leake has started have kept us in contention.

    Again, not saying Leake is a better pitcher than Latos, just my definition of valuable.

    Honestly, in hindsight, putting Chapman to the rotation and Leake to long relief or trade bait would've probably put us another 3-6 games behind in the standings. (Subtract Leake's good games, plus the back of the bullpen would be a disaster with Brox and Marshall out)
    Leake has been the one pitcher on the staff who has been reliable. Latos is brilliant at times, but lapses into really bad decisions. Arroyo is Arroyo. He's like a box of chocolative EX-Lax. You never know how it will come out. Same with Homer. And who is this man they call Cueto? It's hard to believe we're 11 over.
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  17. #297
    THAT'S A FACT JACK!! GAC's Avatar
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    Re: Let's give Mike Leake some credit.

    Quote Originally Posted by Falls City Beer View Post
    I'm having a hard time figuring out who's been more valuable.
    Welcome back guy. You've been missed.
    "panic" only comes from having real expectations

  18. #298
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    Re: Let's give Mike Leake some credit.

    I think it is pretty clear that Leake has rounded a corner mentally.

    Physically, he's still the same pitcher he always was. But mentally, he is new man. Take his 7/24 start for instance. He had nothing going for him that day (12 hits, 2 walks, 2 K's in 6 IP) and his defense didn't do him any favors either (2 errors), but he kept battling and somehow managed to hold the Giants to one run. The 2012 version of Leake would have lost focus, started serving up mistake pitches in the middle of the strikezone, and the game would have got out of hand. The 2013 version buckled down and found a way to escape unscathed inning after inning after inning.

    Leake is not the same jittery kid who used to lose focus and lets games get away from him. He's not throwing mistake pitches at the worst possible time anymore. That is the big difference in him this season. It has allowed him to become consistent and reliable, which is the difference between a BOR guy and a TOR/MOR guy. Let Leake serve as an object lesson in the silliness of theoretical 'ceilings'. Leake has shattered his ceiling.

  19. #299
    Five Tool Fool jojo's Avatar
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    Re: Let's give Mike Leake some credit.

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve4192 View Post
    I think it is pretty clear that Leake has rounded a corner mentally.

    Physically, he's still the same pitcher he always was. But mentally, he is new man. Take his 7/24 start for instance. He had nothing going for him that day (12 hits, 2 walks, 2 K's in 6 IP) and his defense didn't do him any favors either (2 errors), but he kept battling and somehow managed to hold the Giants to one run. The 2012 version of Leake would have lost focus, started serving up mistake pitches in the middle of the strikezone, and the game would have got out of hand. The 2013 version buckled down and found a way to escape unscathed inning after inning after inning.

    Leake is not the same jittery kid who used to lose focus and lets games get away from him. He's not throwing mistake pitches at the worst possible time anymore. That is the big difference in him this season. It has allowed him to become consistent and reliable, which is the difference between a BOR guy and a TOR/MOR guy. Let Leake serve as an object lesson in the silliness of theoretical 'ceilings'. Leake has shattered his ceiling.
    That's a lot of assumptions to throw out there concerning the power of positive thought. Hopefully he can philosophize his way past the keeper of the gates to the pit of regression to the mean.
    "This isnít stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

  20. #300
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    Re: Let's give Mike Leake some credit.

    Quote Originally Posted by jojo View Post
    That's a lot of assumptions to throw out there concerning the power of positive thought. Hopefully he can philosophize his way past the keeper of the gates to the pit of regression to the mean.
    What if he does? And what if he does again next season? What if the lay of the land has changed?


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