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Thread: Let's give Mike Leake some credit.

  1. #46
    Flash the leather! _Sir_Charles_'s Avatar
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    Re: Let's give Mike Leake some credit.

    I also think it's unfair to characterize Leake as a #5 starter. He's much better than the average #5 guys. Heck, he's better than a good portion of the #5's, 4's AND 3's.

    150 starters in MLB / 75 starters in NL

    ERA 38th in MLB / 21 in NL
    WHIP 80th in MLB / 45 in NL
    K/BB 57 in MLB / 30 in NL
    QS 81 in MLB / 43 in NL
    WAR 61 in MLB / 30 in NL

    He's not a "#5" right now.
    Last edited by _Sir_Charles_; 05-23-2013 at 08:40 AM.
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  3. #47
    Box of Frogs edabbs44's Avatar
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    Re: Let's give Mike Leake some credit.

    Quote Originally Posted by TRF View Post
    I'll give him the exact same credit Brantley did last night. He beats the teams he's supposed to beat, and struggles against top tier teams. He's a #3 at best but really a #5, because it's rare to see a pitcher at their ceiling all the time.
    Let's not get too hung up on who's a 1 or a 3 or a 5. Leake is someone learning the major league game who is providing value while making $3MM in the rotation.

    He has a career 4.02 ERA as a starter which is a little worse than league average. I'll take that any day. If he becomes Foggish for an extended period, lets talk. For now, he doesn't have to be a world beater, especially at his price.

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  5. #48
    Member paulrichjr's Avatar
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    Re: Let's give Mike Leake some credit.

    Quote Originally Posted by klw View Post
    I don't think the original post meant the level of competition Leake was facing but rather the perceived competition with Cingrani for the spot in the rotation.
    Correct.

    And he responded beautifully.
    Tim McCarver: Baseball Quotes
    I remember one time going out to the mound to talk with Bob Gibson. He told me to get back behind the batter, that the only thing I knew about pitching was that it was hard to hit.

  6. #49
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    Re: Let's give Mike Leake some credit.

    Quote Originally Posted by jmac View Post
    Anyway, Aaron Boone was also making the point of how Leake struggles against the better competition while beating the weak teams.
    I'm guessing that most pitchers in the majors have quite a bit more success against the lesser competition than the better teams.

    Look at Harvey and Parnell yesterday. They had carved up all of their competition this year until the Reds torched them for 7 runs in about the 7 innings they pitched.

  7. #50
    THAT'S A FACT JACK!! GAC's Avatar
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    Re: Let's give Mike Leake some credit.

    And lets not forget that Leake was drafted out of college and came straight to the majors, not spending any time at all in the minors. Any learning/development he has done has been at this level. I give him credit for that.
    "panic" only comes from having real expectations

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  9. #51
    Worst Behavior. reds44's Avatar
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    Re: Let's give Mike Leake some credit.

    Quote Originally Posted by Caveat Emperor View Post
    He's had a very good start to the season.

    My long-term assessment of him (doesn't throw hard enough, no true "out" pitch, gets hit solidly when he can't locate precisely) remains unchanged, though.

    ETA: Also worth noting that his HR/9 is well below his career average -- currently at .81 HR/9 off a career average (that's been pretty consistent) of 1.22 HR/9. He's succeeding, in part, this year because he's being uncharacteristically stingy with the longball.
    He's thrown 540 big league innings and has a 4.13 ERA. His K/9 BB/9, HR/9, and H/9 (with the exception of 2011) have all been nearly exact every year he's been in the majors.

    I don't think there is much that needs to be said or anything that needs to be figured out. He probably is already at his peak, but I don't anticipate him all of a sudden starting to suck. Worst case, he's a solid BOR starter. I just don't see how there's much to be discussed about him other than he is what he is. I don't think there's some big secret.

    If he stays healthy, throws 200 innings, and puts up similar numbers to what he has been he's pretty much better hitting Bronson Arroyo. Guys who eat innings and don't suck have a ton of value.
    Last edited by reds44; 05-24-2013 at 03:28 AM.
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  10. #52
    Member Wonderful Monds's Avatar
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    Re: Let's give Mike Leake some credit.

    Keep in mind the guy is capable of doing work for himself and helping his own cause by being an above average hitter for his position.
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  11. #53
    Box of Frogs edabbs44's Avatar
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    Re: Let's give Mike Leake some credit.

    Quote Originally Posted by jmac View Post
    I made the mistake the other night of watching "Baseball Tonight" as I normally just watch MLB Network for scores and details.
    Anyway, Aaron Boone was also making the point of how Leake struggles against the better competition while beating the weak teams. Ravich or whatever his name is , said " not a very ringing indorsement " of Leake.
    If this was the Joey Hamilton/Jimmy Anderson days and Leake was our #1, then yes I could say I agree.
    However, he is our # 5 starter and and I doubt too many team's # 5 guy is going to fair well when pitching against the Cincy/STL/Atl type teams.
    If he is facing Wainwright or Cain then yes, we are at a disadvantage. If it is our # 5 against another # 5, then I like our chances.
    Again though, this was my mistake for watching Baseball Tonight.
    Cleveland is a top 5 offense, Leake continues to roll. Good stuff.

  12. #54
    Member RedLegsToday's Avatar
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    Re: Let's give Mike Leake some credit.

    Not a whole lot to add to this discussion, but, after his start yesterday, Mike Leake has a 134 era+, 2nd highest among the starters.

  13. #55
    Member mattfeet's Avatar
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    Re: Let's give Mike Leake some credit.

    Updated Stats without first 2 games:

    G: 8
    IP: 50.2
    ER: 12
    BB: 9
    K: 39
    ERA: 2.13
    WHIP: 1.19

    Not bad.

  14. #56
    High five! nate's Avatar
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    Re: Let's give Mike Leake some credit.

    2013 Mike Leake vs. his career:

    K/9
    Career: 6.08
    2013: 6.46

    BB/9
    Career: 2.35
    2013: 2.15

    HR/9
    Career: 1.22
    2013: 0.86

    GB%
    Career: 49.3%
    2013: 52.6%

    Some nice trends there!
    "Bring on Rod Stupid!"

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  16. #57
    Member mattfeet's Avatar
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    Re: Let's give Mike Leake some credit.

    Very nice trends!

  17. #58
    Member smixsell's Avatar
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    Re: Let's give Mike Leake some credit.

    I've always been sky high on this kid. Just avoid giving him too much rest and I expect the upward trend to continue.

  18. #59
    Where's my chair? REDREAD's Avatar
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    Re: Let's give Mike Leake some credit.

    Not much insight to add, but he pitched a great game on memorial day vs the Indians

    2013 is looking more and more like a special year, despite the injuries to Ludwick and Marshal.
    Thank you Walt and Bob for going for it in 2010-2014!

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  19. #60
    Member paulrichjr's Avatar
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    Re: Let's give Mike Leake some credit.

    I know I know ERA is not the favorite stat to grade a pitcher but last night logging into reds.com and seeing his face on top of the Reds leader board for pitching (ERA) was shocking. I texted my oldest son and said, "Without looking...guess who is number 1 in ERA of the Reds starters?" Of course he knew the answer....ticks me off.

    This staff is GOOD and tell me one person on this board, one, that thought at "almost" the first of June Mike Leake would be number one in ERA on the Reds.
    Tim McCarver: Baseball Quotes
    I remember one time going out to the mound to talk with Bob Gibson. He told me to get back behind the batter, that the only thing I knew about pitching was that it was hard to hit.


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