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Thread: Let's give Mike Leake some credit.

  1. #121
    breath westofyou's Avatar
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    Re: Let's give Mike Leake some credit.

    I guess he ain't gonna get any credit eh?

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  4. #122
    Flash the leather! _Sir_Charles_'s Avatar
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    Re: Let's give Mike Leake some credit.

    Quote Originally Posted by TRF View Post
    I'll argue it. Latos has been better. Cueto though limited by injury has been better. Cingrani has been better and Homer Bailey has been light years better.

    Though Leake lowered his WHIP today to 1.27, he has put a lot of guys on base. It hasn't bit him in the butt yet, and he's been lowering that WHIP. He's also starting to K guys a bit more. If he gets that K/9 north of 7 and starts beating teams that can actually hit (the Cubs have managed 5 runs total this series, the Reds 20) then maybe. But Leake is no Bailey, Latos, or Cueto. And Cingrani has been more than a pleasant surprise.
    Let me be clear TRF...I'm not saying Leake is our best starter. I'm saying an argument could be made that he has been over the last 11. I think he's probably our 4th or 5th (3rd or 4th if you don't count Cueto due to lack of work). I'm just saying that he's got the most W's on the club, has the lowest era of the 4 qualified starters, and has the 2nd fewest BB's and HR's allowed of the qualified starters. Regardless of the competition...that's getting it done.

    Yes, Leake has the highest WHIP of the 4 starters...but he still has the lowest ERA. What does that tell you? If you're thinking he's getting lucky with BABIP...nope. Worst on the staff. He's been UNLUCKY with BABIP. .330 this season. I'd say he's just good at limiting damage and getting guys to hit the ball on the ground weakly. And with this defense...that's a good thing. I'll sacrifice some K's for some easy outs any day of the week.

    Induced GIDP's....13. Second on the staff is Latos with 6. That's a rate of 21% for DP...double the league average of 11%. How much of that is Leake and how much of that is our defense? The fact that it's twice as often as any other pitcher on our staff says something. Strikeouts are not the biggest thing to look at with pitchers, and for several years now...that's what it seems like around here. The pitch to contact guys tend to get looked down upon.
    Last edited by _Sir_Charles_; 06-12-2013 at 06:02 PM.
    2014 predictions:
    99-63 WS champs (Cards take 2nd WC, Mil 3rd, Pit 4th, Chi 5th)
    Bruce/Votto neck and neck MVP race (neither takes it)
    Bailey CYA winner
    Hamilton ROY & GG

  5. #123
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    Re: Let's give Mike Leake some credit.

    It does bring up an interesting question. Leake really seems to struggle in high pressure games against good teams. Maybe it's just that he doesn't have the traditional stuff that you think of with good pitchers.

    I wouldn't want any part of Leake starting a game in a playoff series. I would use Cueto, Latos, Bailey and Arroyo ahead of him.

    So the question is how much are you willing to pay Leake? His overall stats combined with his second year of arbitration means he's about to get a nice payday.

    If you get a decent offer this offseason do you consider moving him?

    Long term I just have a hard time seeing the Reds giving Leake big dollars considering I don't ever think he'll have the pure stuff to go come playoff time.

  6. #124
    Vavasor TRF's Avatar
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    Re: Let's give Mike Leake some credit.

    Quote Originally Posted by westofyou View Post
    I guess he ain't gonna get any credit eh?
    well...

    Let's look at it this way. The team that stomped all over the Cubs for 12 runs was held to two runs by Travis Wood.

    I wonder how well Wood would have handled the Cubs had the starters been reversed today?
    Suck it up cupcake.

  7. #125
    Et tu, Brutus? Brutus's Avatar
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    Re: Let's give Mike Leake some credit.

    Quote Originally Posted by TRF View Post
    Since I've been one of his biggest critics, I'll point out that was a well pitched game today.

    I'll also point out that the Cubs are exactly the kind of team Leake beats.

    But yes, he's been pitching well of late.
    Sounds like damning with feint praise with the knock about the Cubs.

    Show me a pitcher that doesn't pitch a lot better against bad teams than they do good teams and I'll show you a rarity.

    Pedro had a career FIP of 2.68 vs. teams < .500. Teams over .500 it was 3.07.

    Maddux had a career 3.14 vs. teams <.500. Teams over .500 it was 3.61.

    R. Johnson had a career 2.82 FIP vs. teams <.500. Teams over .500, 3.72.

    Mike Leake, meanwhile:

    4.06 vs. <.500
    4.84 vs. >.500

    Seems like Leake is really not much different than anyone else in this regard.
    "No matter how good you are, you're going to lose one-third of your games. No matter how bad you are you're going to win one-third of your games. It's the other third that makes the difference." ~Tommy Lasorda

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  9. #126
    Member jimbo's Avatar
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    Re: Let's give Mike Leake some credit.

    Quote Originally Posted by TRF View Post
    well...

    Let's look at it this way. The team that stomped all over the Cubs for 12 runs was held to two runs by Travis Wood.

    I wonder how well Wood would have handled the Cubs had the starters been reversed today?
    He did beat the Pirates two weeks ago, and it's not like the rest of the staff is cake walking over the likes of the Cardinals.

  10. #127
    breath westofyou's Avatar
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    Re: Let's give Mike Leake some credit.

    Quote Originally Posted by TRF View Post
    well...

    Let's look at it this way. The team that stomped all over the Cubs for 12 runs was held to two runs by Travis Wood.

    I wonder how well Wood would have handled the Cubs had the starters been reversed today?
    Let's look at this way, Wood is a Cub so I don't wonder anything about him other than how does he feel knowing he lost to Mike Leake who evidently doesn't deserve any praise for any of his accomplishments

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  12. #128
    Flash the leather! _Sir_Charles_'s Avatar
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    Re: Let's give Mike Leake some credit.

    To be fair...he DID praise Leake.

    Quote Originally Posted by TRF View Post
    Since I've been one of his biggest critics, I'll point out that was a well pitched game today.

    I'll also point out that the Cubs are exactly the kind of team Leake beats.

    But yes, he's been pitching well of late.
    Sure, there was a dig in the middle there, but let's not pounce on TRF like he's bashing Leake.
    2014 predictions:
    99-63 WS champs (Cards take 2nd WC, Mil 3rd, Pit 4th, Chi 5th)
    Bruce/Votto neck and neck MVP race (neither takes it)
    Bailey CYA winner
    Hamilton ROY & GG

  13. #129
    "So Fla Red"
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    Re: Let's give Mike Leake some credit.

    We can all agree knocking the Cubs is a good thing and should be strongly encouraged.

    29 other teams would love to have Leake at the back of their rotation.

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  15. #130
    Et tu, Brutus? Brutus's Avatar
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    Re: Let's give Mike Leake some credit.

    Quote Originally Posted by _Sir_Charles_ View Post
    To be fair...he DID praise Leake.



    Sure, there was a dig in the middle there, but let's not pounce on TRF like he's bashing Leake.
    The dig basically wiped out any praise he gave. It was a roundabout way of saying "it was only against the Cubs. He sucks against good teams."
    "No matter how good you are, you're going to lose one-third of your games. No matter how bad you are you're going to win one-third of your games. It's the other third that makes the difference." ~Tommy Lasorda

  16. #131
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    Re: Let's give Mike Leake some credit.

    Funny, if the Cubs are so bad, why do the Cards have so much troube beating them?

    Since 2005, The Cubs have a 69-62 record vs. the Cards.

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  18. #132
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    Re: Let's give Mike Leake some credit.

    12 wins in a row at Wrigley, most in history for any opponent.
    Baseball is like church. Many attend, few understand

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  20. #133
    Burn It Jamz's Avatar
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    Re: Let's give Mike Leake some credit.

    I love Mike Leake.
    I see great things in baseball. It's our game.

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  22. #134
    Member Tom Servo's Avatar
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    Re: Let's give Mike Leake some credit.

    Even if you figure he's going to regress (and I think we all admit he's not likely to remain a sub 3.00 ERA pitcher), he's still in line for a career year, and for a guy with a pretty good career before this year, it merits props.
    "Since I've been with the Reds in 1989, we've never had a farm system this loaded," Bowden said. "If we were the New York Yankees and had unlimited dollars, we could have traded for Colon, (Jeff) Weaver, Rolen, (Cliff) Floyd, (Kenny) Rogers and Finley and gotten them all -- and still held onto our top five prospects. That's an amazing statement."

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  24. #135
    Member smixsell's Avatar
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    Re: Let's give Mike Leake some credit.

    Leake just plain better than most on here give him credit for being. He's not going to regress as much as people think. He started out very good for a raw rookie, and is getting better.

    I get a good laugh out of the majority who can't see one inch past the advanced stats (or at least their poor interpretation of those stats). Leake is darn good and still improving.

    He is going to become Greg Maddux lite.

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